Victoria Tweed Super(5f4) = Bright. What speaker to tame and retain jensen vibe?.....

[gytyr1968]

I just recieved a Tweed super and its very nice, but on the bright side.
Even with the tubes it came with.
I then traded out the tubes for NOS USA TungSols and an RCA 12at7 in 1st position (headroom all the way to the very end...if thats your thing) and its still the same brightness.
It has a Jensen P10Q and a Jensen P10R.

I really want to retain that Jensen P10 sound, but want to tame the brightness.

Would one hempcone work? How would it mix with a P10Q?

I'm using a Tele w/Antiquities and running the treb/presc/(and bass) around 3, which sounds just right. But want to get them up to 5 or so. It just seems like I'm running out of room when I'm that low on the dial.

Any other ideas?
Thanx
- Robert

[Chuck H]

Speaker selection is a difficult process. The reasons are many and varied but it's been demonstrated here add nausium. You can end up on a perpetual quest that leaves a trail of slightly used speakers in it's wake...No $h!t.

One thing to keep in mind is that any speaker will break in and highs will roll off. I'm one of the few guys who actually likes the mid hump of the Celestion V30. The highs were a bit harsh and spikey for me though. I installed one in my personal amp (20 watts) and lived with or compensated for the harsh high end for a looong time. I do run this amp cranked most of the time and after about six months I noticed that the highs were not only rolling off, but balancing out the harsh qualities to leave a really nice top end. It took about a year to stabilize. God I hope I never blow that speaker 'cause I'd hate to have to break in a new one. So... Keep the break in period in mind. If the amp rated well below the speakers watt rating the break in can take a long time. There are some methods used to break in speakers early but I have never used them so I can't report on their effectiveness. Now...

Having gone through an obscene amount of speakers myself I would say that you would do well to try a pair of Eminence Cannabis Rex speakers. Great balance with the right top end (but rolled off a bit) and very efficient. The one I had in my personal amp was really good (where other speakers were too bright, fizzy, boomy or both) until it started breaking in. Then it was a little too dark for my personal tastes. But I don't play a Tele. Not a "mello" speaker per se' but a definitely a good choice for getting a good natural balance with a tamed top end. Like the old broken in Jensen speakers only much more efficient.

So, stick with the stock speakers to see if they break in as you wish, artificially break them in and see or start trying different speakers until you find one you like. The rub with the latter is that it WILL sound different after it breaks in, and then you'll be back at square one. Tough problem but it's part of the mojo of tone and amp design. Mating the right speaker to the right amp so it sounds good from the start and still sounds good after break in is a minor miracle IMHE.

[gytyr1968]

Thanx

I did forget to mention the amp was purchased used and is over a decade old with orig speakers. So they are well broken in.

Isnt the Cannabis Rex a 12"...? I need a 10".
- Robert

[gytyr1968]

I wonder if re-coning a Jensen P10Q or a Eminence BlueFrame with a hempcone would be doable?

Or do they kinda tweak the tone around the hempcone when producing a hempcone speaker?

[Chuck H]

If it's a 10" you need then IMHE you can still use an Eminence model (many Eminence speakers seem to exhibit a desireable treble roll off). The regular L1058 is a great speaker and not near as harsh as the Jensen models. The Eminence alnico model (1028k) is even better IME but has less bass and not quite as much treble roll off.

BTW, I don't work for Eminence. I prefere Celestion speakers for the most part. But I've used a lot of Eminence models and am very familiar with what they do that makes them popular with mant players.

FWIW Mesa sells an Eminence made 10" speaker (ceramic) that sounds even better than the L1058 for about US $50.00 (cheaper than the L1058). Excellent balance and a little dark but not dull. Good efficiency.

[kleuck]

The Hemp EMi in 10" format is the Lil'Buddy, and it's a great (and POWERFUL speaker) but i don't think it retains the Jensen's character (i was previously using a P10R).
I own a L1058 too, and i agree with Chuck : it nails the Jensen vibe whitout being harsh, beware, it's more efficient than the Jensen too (less than the Lil' Buddy though)

[gytyr1968]

Well I put the Eminence BlueFrames in the Victoria Super and it dropped the shrill factor by about 10%, which is pretty good.
I also put a Mullard 12ax7 in the first position which gave a bit more drive and volume. ( I was running a RCA 12at7)
I have a Mullard/Phillips/Telefunken in the preamp positions, and NOS USA TungSols for power tubes and a RCA 5R4 with a brown base (does that matter?) Rectifier. So it keeps gettin' a bit nicer.
I'll stick with this and see how the next gig goes.
I play in a wedding band and just did a gig last night with the amp (before the changes). My vol. was at 8.5 (these go to 12) so it was iffy with the volume of the amp if i needed to increase it or boost solos. It was just right volume wise and solo boosting wise, but it was at the end of the line for both, so if I did a gig that required more vol., it wouldnt get there.
I think now with the 12ax7 back in and the BlueFrames, it should be just right.
12ax7 are a bit louder than 12at7...correct?
Thanx
- Robert

[gytyr1968]

Is there a brand of tube socket that has a tighter fit? My tubes are a bit loose. It seems to be coming from the pins not being snug.

Also ...is there EQ/Vol pots that have a tighter feel when turning the knobs?

Thanx
- Robert

[kleuck]

I think now with the 12ax7 back in and the BlueFrames, it should be just right.
12ax7 are a bit louder than 12at7...correct?
Thanx
- Robert

They give more gain, and 12AT7 are prone to sound harsh when overdriven, for less gain i MUCH prefer 5751 or 12AY7.

[pops]

They give more gain, and 12AT7 are prone to sound harsh when overdriven, for less gain i MUCH prefer 5751 or 12AY7.

I second the 12AY7, it can really warm up the highs, tho you do lose some volume. I would try it in the first preamp tube or the phase inverter. Both if you need to warm it up more and it will still give you the volume.

[MWJB]

Gytyr1968 wrote: "I'm using a Tele w/Antiquities and running the treb/presc/(and bass) around 3, which sounds just right. But want to get them up to 5 or so. It just seems like I'm running out of room when I'm that low on the dial." I'm glad the Emi Blue frames have helped, but what's your objection to running the pots where they sound best, surely as long as the amp sounds good and the pots aren't rammed against the stops, isn't that sufficient? After all that's why yuo have pots on the tone controls, so you can set them to where they sound best.

"Is there a brand of tube socket that has a tighter fit? My tubes are a bit loose. It seems to be coming from the pins not being snug." Are you getting unwanted noise? Are they in danger of dropping out? If the latter, you can powe down the amp, unplug from the wall, drain the filter caps, then see if the socket contacts are the type that wrap around the tube pins, if so you might be able to retension them with a small watchmaker's screwdriver.

With the amp powered up, no instrument plugged in, all vols & tone controls fully CW, gently rock the tubes in their sockets, any that pop/bang/crackle could do with the sockets retensioning or replacing. If the tubes just have some slack, but don't fall out under their own weight (spring cradle retainers?) and don't make any unwanted noise, they could be just fine.

[txstrat]

My main amp is a 5F4 design as well (two Jensen C10Q). To tame the amps brightness I've been using beam blockers. Works great for me.
They cover the part around the dust cap of the speaker (and a little more) where the bright frequencies come out. If you don't wanna spend the money without knowing if it works out for you, just check out the amps tone with a cross of gaffer tape stuck on the grille cloth in front of the speakers.

[gytyr1968]

Yeah I've owned Weber beam blockers for a 12" amp in the past. Thanx

It also becomes an OCD anal type thing when all 3 knobs are just about exactly at 3...lol. That kinda stuff bothers me.
I can never point a knob straight up either...it has to be slightly off ...left or right. Now that I think about it, I cant run knobs straight up and exactly at 9 o' clock or exactly at 3 o" clock , I just need to throw the perfect balance off by a bit..
I'm sure there are others out there like me.
No?
Lol!

[txstrat]

I'm sure there are others out there like me.
No?
Lol!

At least Mr. Monk..... and me.

[gytyr1968]

Cool, I'm not alone.

I think I'm finding the Fender Eminence BlueFrames a bit midrangy compared to the Jensen P10 alnico series.
Does anyone agree?
Thanx