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  • Speaker replacements

    I've been wondering about speaker replacements, specifically whether they really can improve a combo amp.

    I bought a used Traynor YCV20WR 1x12 combo tube amp with the intention of modding it with a custom speaker. It came with a Celestion Greenback, and I really don't know if some of the faults of the amp are due to the speaker or some other aspect. Players say the Greenback is a good speaker.

    I guess I should start out by saying the Traynor is really well made and better than most other amps its size I've had a chance to play and suits the single coils very well. I have a Strat with Rio Grande single coils, the Dual Compensated set of Tall Boy, Halfbreed, and Muy Grande. I play 11-46 strings normally, but sometimes 10's.

    Its faults are that , when played clean, it picks up and resonates the undesirable high-pitched, wavering of the unwound strings. The sound I can most easily relate it to is an unplugged electric being played into a mic--thin strings being fingered without finesse. Those strings lack Authority, no matter how deftly they are played. The reverb is springy and tinny, like yelling into a coffee can, and it accentuates that bitter high end with the questionable intonation. The wound strings do a lot better, but they seem to lack the thunder and assertiveness I get with some other amps. I'm not playing the amp very loudly or pushing it very hard--just normal room temp. And I've put the EQ at Bass 2, Mid 6, Trebel 5--or thereabouts. Turning down the mid or treble just dulls things and doesn't address the problem.

    I was looking at the Weber speakers, specifically the Silver Bell 30 watt and the Blue Dog 30 watt, both alnico. I think ceramic might just bring out more of that bitter high end.

  • #2
    take a look at Scumback speakers......they are built by Weber to the owner's well-researched specs.

    www.southbayampworks.com I have several of these and although a bit pricey, they sound superb.

    I also like the "Veteran 30" sold by www.warehouseguitarspeakers.com Excellent prices for very good speakers.

    Comment


    • #3
      For more thunder and assertiveness, you could try turning the bass a little higher than 2, and placing the amp with its back against a wall or in a corner.

      If your intonation is questionable, fix it. That's why God gave us adjustable bridge saddles and electronic tuners.
      "Enzo, I see that you replied parasitic oscillations. Is that a hypothesis? Or is that your amazing metal band I should check out?"

      Comment


      • #4
        It came with a Celestion Greenback, and I really don't know if some of the faults of the amp are due to the speaker or some other aspect. Players say the Greenback is a good speaker.
        I have 2 GB's. They are good speakers.
        Its faults are that , when played clean, it picks up and resonates the undesirable high-pitched, wavering of the unwound strings.
        Mute the unplayed strings?
        The sound I can most easily relate it to is an unplugged electric being played into a mic--thin strings being fingered without finesse. Those strings lack Authority, no matter how deftly they are played.
        Test the amp through another speaker, speaker through a different amp [though it's doubtful a 'bad' speaker].
        The reverb is springy and tinny, like yelling into a coffee can, and it accentuates that bitter high end with the questionable intonation. The wound strings do a lot better, but they seem to lack the thunder and assertiveness I get with some other amps. I'm not playing the amp very loudly or pushing it very hard--just normal room temp. And I've put the EQ at Bass 2, Mid 6, Trebel 5--or thereabouts. Turning down the mid or treble just dulls things and doesn't address the problem
        Process of elimination of weak points in the signal path, GB's I wouldn't call weak, so next would be the speaker cable..and we're not opening the amp yet..but tubes, then the cable which is in the amp input, that cable is very important one, generally is a long one, try a very short, stout cable from guitar to amp, to help determine how good the longer cable being used is.
        Some items like cables and tubes can be swapped as an easy way to tell if what is there now is good or bad, by comparison, often underestimated is a cables 'contribution' to tone.
        "select tubes and speaker will make the amp sound different.
        Sounds like an older amp, could need to have filter caps serviced, maybe a resistor or so, but none of the symptoms described pointed directly that way.
        Last edited by petemoore; 12-22-2007, 04:46 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Steve Conner View Post
          If your intonation is questionable, fix it. That's why God gave us adjustable bridge saddles and electronic tuners.
          Well, the intonation at the bridge is good. I was talking about "intonation" as a way of describing the bitterness of the string. You know when a string sounds off key to itself, like when you have Stratitus in a single coil? A hint of that. (And no, the pickup heights are not too close.)

          It's the same on all three fo my guitars (Strat, 335, Acoustic). And, yeah, if I play sloppily, it's worse of course. But I'm talking about something you can hear with just one string plucked, especially the unwound ones, and on any guitar to some degree. The other guitar players I jam with have played with it too and notice the same quality--so it isn't just me and my guitars.

          I can mess with effects and make it sound better, but I think the amp should be able to get there on its own.

          It's probably not the speaker, from what you guys say. But just for my own education, is a Greenback an alnico or a ceramic, or something else? And what are the qualities of those two kinds?

          Comment


          • #6
            GB is alnico.
            Alnico is light-er, and requires cobalt, which is expensive to obtain.
            Neodynum is light-est, some strong magnet for size/weight.
            Ceramics are heavier, larger for 'x' magnetic strength.
            ...ceramics and neo's made more 'alnico-like'
            ..Newer alnico's of higher wattage made to sound more 'low-watt-like'
            Hard for me to say what's what on these newer speakers, plenty of choices to make it confusing.

            Comment


            • #7
              You were right about the cable. I switched it to a shorter, new one, and the sound difference amazed me. I had no idea a cable could have that effect. It's like a completely different volume and EQ setting.

              A friend who knows this Traynor amp pretty well had me do some EQ settings to help as well. The main difference he suggested was turning the treble back and compensationg for volume loss with the gain. The other thing that seems to work is using the bright pedal. Finally, I got the rattling tube to hold steady, and that pretty much was the end to the strange intonation problem I was hearing.

              As I switched between guitars today, I realised that the single coils in the Strat are much more picky about the EQ settings than my humbuckers in the 335. Since this is the first real amp I've used with the Strat, I know now that I have some learning to do.

              I don't think it's the Greenback now. It seems to be doing fine.

              Comment


              • #8
                Close

                It sounds like the pickup is too close to the strings and is pulling them out of pitch.
                The greenback speakers are good in a sealed cabinet.
                Open back cabinets do not compliment them.

                JJ

                Comment


                • #9
                  I am still working on the pickup height. I've got them pretty low and don't think that was the sound problem, but could be a contributor, you're right.

                  Interesting about the Greenbacks preferring a closed cabinet. Of course my Traynor YCV20 is open in the back. That could easily be remedied.

                  So what speaker in the 30 watt class likes an open back?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Weber

                    Weber Blue Dog,Silver Bell,&1230-55 for a british sound.
                    http://taweber.powweb.com/weber/blue12f.htm
                    http://taweber.powweb.com/weber/silver12f.htm
                    http://taweber.powweb.com/weber/1230-55f.htm

                    Weber 12F150 for american.
                    http://taweber.powweb.com/weber/12f150.htm


                    JJ

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by petemoore View Post
                      GB is alnico.
                      Alnico is light-er, and requires cobalt, which is expensive to obtain.
                      Neodynum is light-est, some strong magnet for size/weight.
                      Ceramics are heavier, larger for 'x' magnetic strength.
                      ...ceramics and neo's made more 'alnico-like'
                      ..Newer alnico's of higher wattage made to sound more 'low-watt-like'
                      Hard for me to say what's what on these newer speakers, plenty of choices to make it confusing.

                      maybe i`m mistaken here but i thought greenbacks were actually ceramics

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ceramic

                        http://professional.celestion.com/gu...etail.asp?ID=6

                        It sure is a ceramic.
                        They work the best in sealed cabs.


                        JJ

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I made a tight-fitting back for the cab out of 3/4 plywood, cabinet grade. (I work as a cabinetmaker.) Although the Greenback sounds better up against the wall, it sounds worse with the cab enclosed. I think it's because this little Traynor 20 combo is so small. Probably, if the cab were bigger, it would sound fine.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Cab

                            Well,now you know why they {greenbacks} came in '60's Marshall 4x12" sealed cabs.
                            They are LOUD,raw, and efficient like that.
                            Is that Traynor a tube amp ?
                            If it is then sealing the back is a nono.
                            Too much heat.

                            JJ

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yeah, it was just and experiment. I thought it might be too hot. I took off the back anyway--the cabinet is too small for that to work.

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