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  • Deacy Amp

    First of all, a dutiful disclaimer: the writer has been passionate about electronics and guitar pedals for a very short time, so I ask you to forgive any stupid or meaningless questions dictated by the few acquaintances gained so far.

    So, I recently built a Deacy Amp following the Paul Stevenson / Greg Fryer layout and scheme. By Fryer's own admission that version of the Deacy was very similar to the original, but not 100%. Further studies therefore followed, but concentrated mainly on the loudspeaker used which led to a result such as to produce and sell the product obtained as a replica.
    The scheme on which this amplifier was based was practically the one present in the Mullard Reference Manual for Transistor (page 171) but, as it turned out later, the original circuit diagram recovered in a skip by bassist John Deacon belonged to a portable radio from 1965 produced in South Rhodesia called Supersonic PR80.
    The diagram of the amplification section of that radio is in fact practically identical to that present in the Mullard manual, but not perfectly identical (it should be noted that unlike those indicated in the manual, the Fryer layout uses transistors AC125, 126 and 128).
    From what I seemed to understand, much of the accuracy of the sound is given by the two transformers present in both circuits but, around those of the PR80 there is a sort of mystery which seems rather difficult to solve.
    Now, given that: finding a PR80 seems like an impossible feat (I tried asking a group of vintage radio enthusiasts here in Italy and was offended by my intentions to dissect it and turn it into a guitar amplifier: D), the price proposed by the only manufacturer who has managed to put his hand on that circuit is absolutely exaggerated for my pockets (€ 300 only for the complete pcb) I ask you if it is somehow possible to modify the Stevenson / Fryer layout to make it more similar to the , let's call it PR80, without having to replace the two transformers.
    Finally, a question regarding the amp I just finished: what makes it dissimilar to the original is the lack of that "fizz" that makes it so distinctive (as well as a slightly less muffled sound). Could this lack be caused by transistors that do not have sufficient hfe?
    I thank all those who want to participate in this discussion.
    I attach photos and links of the various layouts and schemes:

    Stevenson / Fryer Layout: https://paulinthelab.blogspot.com/20...tripboard.html
    Stevenson / Fryer Schematic: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CIf5yPKau...1600/deacy.bmp
    Supersonic PR80 Schematic: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/67/68...ca90c2e630.jpg

  • #2
    I'm not sure what the question is here. The original PR80 schematic has a really bazaar output transformer, and there is a winding used in a feedback loop. Unless you can find an original one, finding anything even remotely close would be impossible. One thing that might make the Fryer amp sound more like the PR80 is a bias adjustment on the driver and output stages. On the Fryer schematic, replace R11 with a 50 or 100 Ohm trimpot wired as a rheostat. For the driver stage, replace R7 with a 4.7K resistor in series with a 10K trimpot wired as a rheostat. Also, experiment with the feedback, remove R12 or play around with the value from 100K to 1Meg.

    A word of warning: Those transformers can generate Voltage spikes that will kill low Voltage Germanium transistors. It would be a shame to pay big bucks for some vintage transistors and destroy them in a circuit that's not working properly or simply being driven too hard. Consider using silicon transistors that can be had for pennies.
    Last edited by loudthud; 12-22-2021, 06:15 AM.
    WARNING! Musical Instrument amplifiers contain lethal voltages and can retain them even when unplugged. Refer service to qualified personnel.
    REMEMBER: Everybody knows that smokin' ain't allowed in school !

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    • #3
      Silicon transistors can not be used there.

      And if you somehow kludge any, sound will be *absolutely* different.

      That said, the PR80 schematic shown is *very* different from from the black sore on the eyes one.

      It also has at least one mistake, and probably more if I dig deeper.

      The so called Amp Input is an external 9V supply jack, and is also wrongly connected to amp input.
      Juan Manuel Fahey

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      • #4
        I think the EXT. AMP jack in the PR80 schematic is an output.

        The jack also mutes the internal output stage by disconnecting it from the 9V supply.

        Because of the "negative logic" of the circuit, the tip contact of the jack goes to ground (9V) and ring is "hot" (signal).
        Last edited by Helmholtz; 12-22-2021, 03:34 PM.
        - Own Opinions Only -

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        • #5
          Originally posted by loudthud View Post
          I'm not sure what the question is here. The original PR80 schematic has a really bazaar output transformer, and there is a winding used in a feedback loop. Unless you can find an original one, finding anything even remotely close would be impossible. One thing that might make the Fryer amp sound more like the PR80 is a bias adjustment on the driver and output stages. On the Fryer schematic, replace R11 with a 50 or 100 Ohm trimpot wired as a rheostat. For the driver stage, replace R7 with a 4.7K resistor in series with a 10K trimpot wired as a rheostat. Also, experiment with the feedback, remove R12 or play around with the value from 100K to 1Meg.

          A word of warning: Those transformers can generate Voltage spikes that will kill low Voltage Germanium transistors. It would be a shame to pay big bucks for some vintage transistors and destroy them in a circuit that's not working properly or simply being driven too hard. Consider using silicon transistors that can be had for pennies.
          Thank you! Now as soon as I'll learn how to "replace R11 with a 50 or 100 Ohm trimpot wired as a rheostat" and "replace R7 with a 4.7K resistor in series with a 10K trimpot wired as a rheostat" I'll make some test. Joking apart, I really appreciate your help.

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          • #6
            I'd read that the output transistors in the original were badly matched, contributing to asymmetric distortion. Also that Brian had experimented with running the amp at lower voltages (just under 7v) and this would also affect the sound.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by rockaffe View Post

              Thank you! Now as soon as I'll learn how to "replace R11 with a 50 or 100 Ohm trimpot wired as a rheostat" and "replace R7 with a 4.7K resistor in series with a 10K trimpot wired as a rheostat" I'll make some test. Joking apart, I really appreciate your help.
              According to Wiki, the term rheostat is obsolete. Read about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potentiometer#Rheostat

              Also it would be helpful to know what country you are in or where you can obtain parts.
              WARNING! Musical Instrument amplifiers contain lethal voltages and can retain them even when unplugged. Refer service to qualified personnel.
              REMEMBER: Everybody knows that smokin' ain't allowed in school !

              Comment


              • #8
                Do you use a treble booster in front? Otherwise I'd expect the low input impedance of the amp to muffle the sound.

                Did you find a suitable speaker?
                - Own Opinions Only -

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                • #9
                  I'm not clear on how the output transformer operates. There are two feedback loops and what appears to be the secondary is a feedback winding. What's the reason for this arrangement, and what's the theory behind how the output is connected up?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mick Bailey View Post
                    I'm not clear on how the output transformer operates. There are two feedback loops and what appears to be the secondary is a feedback winding. What's the reason for this arrangement, and what's the theory behind how the output is connected up?
                    You're right, the PR80 OT is wired as an autotransformer.
                    In principle that would work with tube amps as well but allows only low speaker currents and doesn't provide isolation.

                    The 4.7k resistors from output to the transistor bases provide some local NFB.
                    The secondary winding is used for global NFB only.

                    Not quite clear what the actual speaker impedance is.
                    Last edited by Helmholtz; 12-23-2021, 09:06 PM.
                    - Own Opinions Only -

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Helmholtz View Post
                      Do you use a treble booster in front? Otherwise I'd expect the low input impedance of the amp to muffle the sound.

                      Did you find a suitable speaker?
                      Yes, I use a TB in front, the amp by itself it's really muffled. At the moment I'm using a twin cone 6.5" speaker (not for guitar) at 8ohm but it seems that the original one use a 6" at 4ohm

                      Btw, I'm from Italy (answering to loudthud )

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                      • #12
                        What happens if you disconnect the 120R / 220n filter from the transformer? The gates of hell can be opened, but it can be helpful to have a reference so you can adjust it later.

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