Modding vintage amps - OK or blasphemy?

[glebert]

Looking for opinions, when is it OK, in your opinion to mod vintage amps? I recently picked up a Magnatone 411 Starlite (1964 or 65). It's kinda cool, but the fixed speed tremolo is kind of frustrating (and quite fast). It has a grid leak bias input and thinking that might be another place to modify.

The mods would obviously be reversible, but for the tremolo speed I would potentially need to put a hole in the chassis for a pot, give up an input jack, or maybe I could get away with a stacked pot.

Thoughts?

[Enzo]

So give up a jack. How often would you be using the low jack anyway?

Change the 0.01uf caps to 0.02uf in the trem oscillator. Replace one of the timing resistors with a pot.

Is the amp collectible? In collectible condition? There are vintage amps, and then there are amps that are just old.

[glebert]

I would say it is only slightly collectible, and then just because it is Magnatone. It's basically one step up from a widow maker. It is in pretty good shape though.

[Chuck H]

There are vintage amps, and then there are amps that are just old.

I like this.

There's a similar ideology around bamboo fishing rods. Because of the skill and craftsmanship it takes to make one some of the best older examples from when they were the current technology are exalted. Not unlike tube amps. In fact just like tube amps. Even to being items people want to use but don't want devalued by use. So, a rod that's been refinished, has a slight set in the tip section or any modification or repair is neatly moved from collectible into the nice old fishing pole category. Some of the uber collectibles will only ever be restored and protected but there are a lot of good but lesser brands/models that are quickly moving into minor collectible status to fill the vacuum. So the question for someone that wants to actually fish with a nice old rod become ethical based on it's collectability.

I think modifications to old amps that are even minor collectables should be kept to those that are reversible. Only because it DOES seem unethical to destroy culturally appreciated history. These amps will never be made again so the ones we have are all we have. And, of course, amps that are truly iconic and original belong in museums and should not be modded at all. But an old amp that's not an uber collectable and has been used and serviced (so no longer all original) should certainly be played. I usually suggest replacing original speakers and saving them to be put back in for any amps that might possibly become collectable. But sure, change a couple of component values or stack the channels or whatever. But probably best not to drill holes. Someday someone somewhere might be really glad you didn't. Maybe even you if the amp is ever collectable and becomes an investment after all.

I once picked up an old, heavily modded and somewhat abused Marshall head just so I could mod it to my hearts content. Amps that already have non factory holes in them and such have no holds barred IMO. Well, unless it's something like an original jtm45 or bf Super Reverb, right? Then you restore it regardless of how much work it will take. But a silver face Super Reverb or a JMP MK3 master model with after market holes in it or the cabinet is cut down or some such? Pffft. Mod that thing.

[J M Fahey]

WHERE´s the "blasphemy"?
It´s a CHEESY, poorly designed as cheap as can be beginner´s amp.
Magna ... WHO?

Only semi senile old farts such as us care about those things; kids (which outnumber us 1000000:1) don´t even LISTEN to Guitar based Music any more, let alone care about it, even less play it.

For a true appraisal of its *actual* value (what people will actually pay for it) just publish it on EBay, Craigslist and for good measure on TGP, then keep track of actual customers but above all, actual sale.

So after clearing the bush: by all means mod it into something more usable.

[Mick Bailey]

You could replace the intensity pot with a concentric dual pot to cover intensity and rate. No new holes and fully reversible. I sometimes machine down the knobs to make a low profile setup that's pretty neat.

[glebert]

You could replace the intensity pot with a concentric dual pot to cover intensity and rate. No new holes and fully reversible. I sometimes machine down the knobs to make a low profile setup that's pretty neat.

This is where I am leaning, it would be nice to have the speed and intensity controls close to each other.

Juan, I don't disagree that this is such a basic amp that no one really cares about the modding, but I am more curious where some draw the line. Who would have thought that old Silvertone amps would be selling for $1000? Thirty years ago people were sanding down their Les Pauls and painting them dayglo and putting in Floyd Rose trems because nobody wanted those old fashioned guitars.

Thanks to all for inputs.

[Greg_L]

I'm in the "it's your amp, do whatever you want" camp. Make it how you want it. Or...preserve it in a glass case and buy something that does actually do what you want.

But I also spend holidays in the "please don't hack up vintage stuff" camp. If a vintage/collectible amp has already been hacked, then go for it. If it's still in original condition, don't go adding holes to it. Keeps mods reversible and re-purpose features that aren't used.

[mozz]

Since Buddy Holly was a Magnatone user, it brings up the value of other model numbers he didn't use. Supro used by Jimmy Page, brings up the value of model numbers he didn't use. Repeat. If you want to modify it, that's up to you. Make it reversible.

Kids don't listen to 60s 70s rock music anymore? Where did you get that from. Sure they have their idols of today but many like the same guitar heroes from the classic rock era, many actually play guitar and are in bands.

[The Dude]

I'll just add, if I mod an amp, I put a note inside the amp describing what was done just in case anyone ever wants to put it back to factory. Give the next guy who opens it up a little help. I'm sure most of us have opened up an amp that's been modded to hell with no notes or idea of what was done. Tracing mod work done by other techs with no documentation is a real PITA. Don't be "that guy".

[glebert]

^^^Yep

[Chuck H]

How many amps have been restored to original? Even here!?! It's something that comes up random depending on market and whimsy. Just don't drill new holes or toss out useful parts that will remain so. And put a different speaker in it to preserve the original. That's it. There are a lot of work around alternatives for drilling holes.

[J M Fahey]

Kids don't listen to 60s 70s rock music anymore? Where did you get that from

Just-look/ask-around.
Serious.

Since Buddy Holly was a Magnatone user, it brings up the value of other model numbers he didn't use.

Buddy-WHO?

Serious.

I´m 69 and Buddy was already too old for me, never a "hero".

The earliest "Guitar Bands" I paid attention to were Rolling Stones, Beatles, the Hollies, Tremeloes, Dave Clark 5, Eric Burdon and the Animals, etc. .... even the cheesy Monkees; Buddy´s popularity was at least "one (youth) generation" older by then (early 60´s).

File him together with Elvis Presley and The Shadows ... "known" maybe, but "too old to be a hero" by any means.

And in any case we did not care about amps, at all, just liked the songs and performer; the hardware obsession came MUCH later, from mid-late 70´s onwards.

People who turned radio on and heard Buddy Holly, bought his records, etc. , must be 70 to 90 y.o. by now ... actuary tables tell you how many are left

[glebert]

Just-look/ask-around.
Serious.

FWIW, I took this Magnatone 411 into the local guitar store (where I have been doing some part-time amp repair) and left it there for the employees to try it. They absolutely LOVE it, totally stock. I was going to pick it up today and ended up leaving it because one guy didn't get to try it yet. These guys are all 22-30 years old.

[Enzo]

If it came up in conversation, I used to mention the Beatles. I recall talking to the young girl at the cash register, and I said "They were the Beatles, there were four of them and they were very popular." And she said, "I have heard of them".