My Vision of the Future Guitar Amp

[Robert M. Martinelli]

This discussion reminds me of a Rush tune from 1980

All this machinery making modern music
Can still be open-hearted
Not so coldly charted, it's really just a question
Of your honesty, yeah, your honesty

Wow! that's "The Spirit Of Radio"!

God bless good ol' Neil Peart!

And, if memory serves me well, it goes on like this:

.....one likes to believe in the freedom of music
but glittering prizes and endless compromises
shatter the illusion of integrity, yeah!

Now, about that Windows OS on-board - do you really want the screen of your amp to turn blue in the middle of a gig and say: an error has occurred at "00EL84Hex" - your amp needs rebooting - turn it off, unplug your guitar - gently put it on the stand - get off the stage - repeat the above procedure in reverse order -

( BTW, I know the "L" in the above string is not hex, but the EL84 is the first valve that came in mind to me....after all I am a Vox addict! )

Cheers

Bob

[Enzo]

Your amp has been updated, it will automatically restart in 2 minutes.

Phos, I really would like to hear your vision for how this panel would be laid out. I have no clear idea in my head what you think it would look like.

[Alex R]

- there's a lot to be said for the durability of non-printed circuit board wiring. A printed circuit board amp, tube or digital, won't put up with being dropped off the back of the van so many times as will one wired on a flexible eyelet board, unless there has been considerable investment in durability. Amps with touch-screens and printed circuit boards have a long way to go before they get as durable as most amps were 40 years ago.

Most of the complex modelling amps I see are used at home. Most of the gigging amps I see are of the KISS type. The home market is expanding I guess, and likely to go on doing so. Old-style amps (and the guys who repair them) are I think already very much a niche market.

[Steve Conner]

Referring to a lot of this stuff, the old farmer that lives in my head would scratch his head and say "It's nice, sonny, but what does it DO?"

It keeps the people who design, manufacture and sell it in a job.

Re durability, the instrument I just finished working on is supposed to survive a 6 foot drop test onto concrete. 6-layer boards, 500MHz processor and all. The stuff we're making just now is intended for on-site use by power company engineers, so it's going to get about the same abuse that a touring band's amps would.

A PCB-based amp, modelling amp or whatever, could be made as durable as you like. If anything, it could be made tougher, if it doesn't have any vacuum tubes to shatter. But I guess the makers prefer to use cheaper and flimsier components, so they can keep the price down and still make a profit. Home use is about right, Line6 stuff is built like a home stereo.

[Phostenix]

A PCB-based amp, modelling amp or whatever, could be made as durable as you like. If anything, it could be made tougher,...

At the risk of setting Chuck H off again I'll just say that nobody wants to pay for reliabililty. We've become a society that shops on price point first, features second. If I made a bullet-proof amp with the same features as some other amp, but it cost twice as much, it wouldn't move off the GC shelves.

[Phostenix]

Your amp has been updated, it will automatically restart in 2 minutes.

Phos, I really would like to hear your vision for how this panel would be laid out. I have no clear idea in my head what you think it would look like.

First, let me say that all the comments about amps rebooting are fun (like the Microsoft car parody), but aren't really a concern here, IMHO. You guys that are techs for a living actually have a better insight than I do on how modern gear fails - Do keyboard players have a lot of problems with their computers restarting during gigs? What about all the rack processors? I've seen stuff fail, but it usually dies with an error message on the screen & it's over. These are not general purpose OS's. Nobody is loading 3rd party drivers into the kernel.

As far as displays, I'm only dreaming based on what I'm seeing with consumer electronics. I'm sure there are better visionaries than I out there, but here's an example of what I see (from left to right): A "picture" of a compressor pedal's control knobs (just like the real one you've selected) > a picture of an OD pedal's knobs > the faceplate of an amp (just like it looks on the real one) > a picture of a chorus pedal's knobs > a picture of a delay pedal's knobs.

I'm not sure what the simplest way is allow "changes" to the parts of the signal chain, but maybe a slider under (or next to) each "picture" that you can swipe with your finger. As you swipe, the different pedal or amp pictures cycle through like album covers do on an iPhone.

So, the appeal for the average player is that it looks just like the real gear, but with a swipe of your finger you can change things. There would obviously be some way to save a setup, too. On higher end models, you could have an "Advanced" button on each of the pieces that could be touched that adds more knobs - ones that aren't there on the originals. Players could use that feature or ignore it.

As far as user interfaces go, I think there has been a very real pushback against complex UIs by the average computer user and I see software & hardware makers responding. Sure, there are still complex programs that are overwhelming, but look at how many products now have "Lite" editions. There seems to be a real attempt by software makers now to make things easier to use. I don't think I'm the only one to notice that 50 year old managers who struggle with what I think are simple computer tasks use their iPhones with ease (and love them).

On a semi-related note, computing is going to the "cloud" - moving applications & data to secure data centers and requiring only an internet browser to work with them. Computers just need enough OS to boot & open a browser. There are lots of reasons to do this, and they're all about solving the kinds of problems everone jokes about when it comes to computers. It's easier for the users (no software to install or update, your data is not lost if your hard drive dies, etc.), it's easier for companies (update the servers & everyone gets the new version, no more attack vectors for viruses from users, etc.) and on & on it goes. We're going back to the mainframe model, in many ways. On-site IT guys like me will likely see our jobs disappear - computers will become another disposable appliance. We'll have to move to the big data centers or find something else to do for a living. But, I think you'll see it happen because it will be better for the end user - whether that's a home user or a business. Stand-alone, high powered computing platforms may become the next tube amp market.

When the technology gets to the point where modelling amps sound "close enough" to tube amps and are easy to use, then we should see a major shift. When users see it as "better", then they'll make the change.

[Phostenix]

Oh, and flexible, very tough flat displays already exist. I don't know if they are touch panels, but you can be sure they will be.

[guitician]

What will profit the Mfg the most... is what will happen with amps

With all the technology you would think that the would make an amp that would listen(Virtual Ears) to your "Ideal Tone" and then it could use some AI logic to mimic it with a "tone sampling servo loop" or something.

Then they could sell it to the people that want all the stuff that most can't afford to buy.

[Gollum]

Regarding cloud computing - you're absolutely right Phostenix. The main market that's going to hold back the home user though is the gaming market. That is the most self-perpetual market I've ever seen, and it's BIG business. Hardware gets better, software companies break new boundaries, and then we need better hardware. People offering cloud computing services would loose too much money or ask for too much money in order to keep their hardware up to date all the time, and to handle the load swings of kinds getting of school and adults getting off work in the afternoon/evening.

Plus there's the latency issue, which already drives people nuts with games. You're talking about sending only about 1,500 times more data (even in a compressed image format) what is currently being sent and it's already an issue. The resolutions are going higher and higher, and we're now looking at a possible shift to multi-monitor setups require a substantial leap in power.

Cloud computing is the future, but it'll be hard pressed to truly take over. It's certainly wonderful for businesses though.

[cminor9]

Cloud computing is the future, but it'll be hard pressed to truly take over. It's certainly wonderful for businesses though.

The last few places I have worked have used cloud computing. Where I work now uses Amazon cloudfront, and it's awesome. But it's no panacea. It's just another tool.

Cloud computing in the sense of google or amazon holding all the data in geographically dispersed facilities isn't going to replace a good old skool RDBMS behind lock and key. Some data (images, js files, css, etc) can be stored in the cloud. Some data (proprietary date, trade secrets, etc) needs to be secure. I don't think anyone would ever knowingly trust google or anyone else with proprietary data by putting it in any cloud anywhere.

People have been heralding the death of the relational database for years. And guess what? It's not going anywhere. Why not? Cause it works, people know how to use it, and oh yes, it works.

I don't think tube amps are going anywhere either. Guys like Dr Z, Bad Cat, and even, as much as I hate to admit it, Mesa Boogie are doing new stuff (or maybe even seemingly new stuff, or maybe presenting old ideas to a new crowd or in new ways) with tube amps. I think expecting modeling amps with touch panels to totally replace old skool tube amps is a bit like holding your breath for the flying car. Sure, maybe someday, but not in our lifetimes.

[Phostenix]

I think expecting modeling amps with touch panels to totally replace old skool tube amps is a bit like holding your breath for the flying car. Sure, maybe someday, but not in our lifetimes.

I've never said they would "totally replace" tube amps. I'm sure there will always be a percentage of the market that will want tubes/valves (I have no guess what that percentage will be), but I do think that the "mainstream" market will move to modelling once the quality of the sims are very close & the user interface is simpler.

[Phostenix]

Regarding cloud computing - you're absolutely right Phostenix. The main market that's going to hold back the home user though is the gaming market.

At the risk of derailing this thread into a cloud computing discussion (which I don't want it to be), help me understand this. I'm not a gamer & don't follow gaming at all, but it seems like I hear people talking about multi-player internet gaming all the time.

[Phostenix]

I don't think anyone would ever knowingly trust google or anyone else with proprietary data by putting it in any cloud anywhere.

I don't think so either, but I think business will still use the technology in their own data centers. The advantage of a browser-based UI outweighs the limitations in many ways. I only brought it up because I think it somewhat analogous. There will always be applications where a general purpose/full featured OS will be necessary, but I think the majority of users would be better served by a computer system where they don't have to install or update anything & that is much harder to infect with spyware/viruses. It's also cheaper & easier to build. Lots of advantages.

In the same way, there will always be applications where a tube amp is considered the best choice. But, when players can get a box that not only sounds very close to the "real thing" but gives them a huge collection of "real things" and is easy to use, I think they will flock to it. It will be cheaper, more flexible, easier to move around, and easier to maintain. It will be cheaper to manufacture, too (and disposable & obsolete-able).

Purists will never be satisfied with modelling. There's nothing wrong with that. But, I don't think most people are purists.

[Phostenix]

It just occurred to me that a year or so ago, I posted on a computer forum about how the browser based UI would eventually take over personal computing. I think I laid out how it would update, deal with hardware add-ons like cameras & scanners, etc. I don't remember it generating a discussion as good as this one, though.

[Old Tele man]

...for those who don't know, "Cloud Computing" is sorta like the addage: "...not keeping all your eggs in one basket..." ala' distributed archiving, with distributed backup, with advertising.