beginning research on my first amp, need help!!!

[supaflytnt]

Ok guys i need your help. i want to build an amp, but I want to see what suggestions the experts have. I want to design an original sound, but I think that will overwhelm me. and i dont just want to just look at a schematic and replicate it so this is where you guys come in.

can anyone tell me where to start?

also how do you learn what parts to use where, what tubes to use, what size transformer.... anything

sorry for my ignorance I am new to this and get really confused when I read this info and have no idea what it means

thanks for your help

[mooreamps]

well, there is a lot of expertise here. Let me tell what I did.

Go to this website : http://www.londonpower.com


Order a book called "TUT1". Read this book through cover to cover ; think about the material ; and then read it again. This will give you a pretty good idea of what's going on. Good luck....

-g

[tubeswell]

Hi supaflytnt

Welcome to the forum

I don't want to pour cold water on your ambitions, but if you don't know much then you probably should start with a simple circuit that is a tried-and-true design and which is relatively easy (and stress-free) to troubleshoot. That way you can learn about the basics and have a satisfying experience. I suggest a simple SE amp like a 5F2A (around 4-5W) or a simple PP amp like a 5E3 (15-18W) to begin with. There is still a fair amount of work involved in one of these. But there is potentially less that can go wrong. You need to learn and understand basics like grounding, lead dress (and even soldering) as well as understanding output tube biasing, before you attempt something more complex.

In addition, tooling up can be costly. If you start with a basic amp, it can ease the pain of having to get specialist tools you need for some of the chores.

Also tube amps are highly addictive and potentially lethal, so you need to learn to understand how a power supply works and how to discharge filter caps safely, as well as some fundamental safety practices.

[txstrat]

Also tube amps are highly addictive...

Addiction's the fun part.

But the LETHAL voltages aren't funny at all. Keep that in mind.

Here's a basic overview: tubenewbie.com

[Chuck H]

I want to design an original sound, but I think that will overwhelm me. and i dont just want to just look at a schematic and replicate it so this is where you guys come in.

So what you want is for us to design you an amp based on your whimsy and you will build it?... Ok.

That's a ballsy angle to come from... But it can work. The only trouble is that the process is long and frustrating for all involved. Not the build part, that'll be almost easy. It's the tweaking and troubleshooting afterward that becomes problematic. It becomes subjective and you'll be the only one that can hear what's happening with the actual amp. And I'm sure your expectations will be fairly high. I don't know what you do for a living, but imagine trying to explain to a raw novice on a BBS how to do it in a unique way when you can't see, hear or touch the results. And your relying on their inexperienced opinion/description of what's going on in the process. We've done it here before, and we'll do it again. But be forewarned and prepared.

can anyone tell me where to start?

Tell us what kind of sound you want (you only said "an original sound"), power output (could depend on if you prefere a cranked amp or a master volume), features (channel switching?, effects loop?, UBER gain?, just a killer clean tone?, etc. Keep in mind that "an original sound" is up to you. To get truely "original" you almost have to get wierd. There's not much new under the sun as tube amps go.

also how do you learn what parts to use where, what tubes to use, what size transformer.... anything

You ask us. The specifics will evolve based on the design and will be specific to it.

sorry for my ignorance I am new to this and get really confused when I read this info and have no idea what it means

Well you have the guts to try it. So you must have a handy streak in you somewhere. Are you at least the kind of person that does a lot of their own repairs on appliances and such? It would be good for us to know if we're working with a rocket sceintist or someone who wears a paper hat and smokes too much weed.

Do you own a soldering iron? More importantly, are you willing to spend MORE than you would pay for a MFG'd amp. Prototyping an original design nearly always costs more than just buying a similar amp.

Chuck

[mooreamps]

The path of any journey always starts with the first step ; does it not ?? Besides, he can always ask the rocket scientist questions along the way.



-g

[booj]

Always design an amp backwards, from the moment you hear this exhilerating perfect tone coming from a perfectly executed riff to everything necessary to make that moment happen.
If you can experience that in am amp that is already built, then copy that bad boy and don't feel bad about it.

[Chuck H]

Gary, I was trying to prepare, not discourage. I remember the first time I designed and built an amp from scratch. And I kinda knew what I was doing! In my head the process was streamlined and the tone would be perfect at turn on. In reality it was a major pain in the a$$. I found out that realizing a new design can be a longer, harder process than just building an amp. You know what I'm talking about I'm sure. And I welcome any who wish to breath solder fumes in search of tone.

Booj, very good analogy and advice. All of my early experience was with mods to existing designs and I still remember some of those amps with reverence and rue the day I sold them. But one has to fund new projects, right?

Which reminds me to add something to my above post. They say a boat is a hole in the water that you dump money into. If you approach amp building as a hobby, and your not easily satisfied, it can be like this. But most of us would probably squander our money on whiskey and hookers if we didn't have amps to keep us honest.

Chuck

[tubeswell]

... most of us would probably squander our money on whiskey and hookers if we didn't have amps to keep us honest.

Funny you should say that. Enzo did use an analogy to me once about having my amp apart more times than a hooker's knees. (It was his analogy mind you. )

[mooreamps]

Gary, I was trying to prepare, not discourage. I remember the first time I designed and built an amp from scratch. And I kinda knew what I was doing! In my head the process was streamlined and the tone would be perfect at turn on. In reality it was a major pain in the a$$. I found out that realizing a new design can be a longer, harder process than just building an amp. You know what I'm talking about I'm sure. And I welcome any who wish to breath solder fumes in search of tone.



Chuck

I know you were ; and I do understand exactly what you are talking about. New layouts are a major pain, and it's a lot of work to take something from paper to a working unit.. The only thing I can say to the new guy is ; the first one is always the most painful. After that, they get a little easier, and a little easier as you build more units, and gain more expertise. I would just say, try to stick it out until you have a working amplifier, and you will be a bigger man then, and than what you are now. Also, there are a lot good people on this forum who can help you. Don't be afraid to ask....


-g

[supaflytnt]

well thankyou everyone for your support!!!

thanks for the moral support, all of you guys are awesome. well here it goes one more addiction to add to the collection! I plan on heading to barnes and nobles to pick up a book about wiring. I do have a soldering iron, and I am a welder/fabricator by profession working on becoming a mechanical engineer and have completely wired cars from front to back, but that is alot different. anyway I didnt realize it would be so expensive but like you said either kick a$$ tube amps or liquor and hookers.

thankyou again for the support I will be in touch. one last thing does anyone have any other suggestions for books

[Chuck H]

I can highly recommend the Gerlad Weber books (Tube Amp Talk for the Guitarist and Tech and A Desktop Reference to Hip Vintage Guitar Amps). A lot of posters here will poo poo them but IMHO they are tops for the novice. If you wan't to learn "tubes" you need to study electronics. And they don't teach tubes in electronics anymore. Not to mention that guitar amps are a different animal. I don't recall any EE courses on how to make a tube distort in an attractive way. The Weber books offer an understanding of tube guitar amps and much of the electronic principals that apply. In reading them I came to realize that much of the book is edited or written by Ken Fischer of Trainwreck fame (RIP). Just compare the writing styles in those books to Kens "Trainwreck pages" and you'll know where he contributed. For some more long haired reading I should mention that our own MerlinB has a book out that I havent read but is getting good reviews. Also, the Kevin O'connor "Ultimate Tone" series is supposed to be the $h!t. I haven't read those either.

Chuck

[mooreamps]

I Also, the Kevin O'connor "Ultimate Tone" series is supposed to be the $h!t. I haven't read those either.

Chuck

I have Kevin's book ; ultimate tone, and others. Yes, I highly recommend his TUT series.

-g

[tubeswell]

should mention that our own MerlinB has a book out that I havent read but is getting good reviews.

+1 for Merlin's book. I got this for bedtime reading and it is seriously really good.

[DIY_Guy]

Richard Kuehnel's books are a great source of information also. I probably wouldn't understamd power amps at all if it wasn't for his book on them.