Best speaker for voicing amps?

[Steve Conner]

Hi all,

Lately I've been messing around with solid-state and hybrid designs, and trying to get a feel for how they sound. I have the opportunity to crank them up in the studio at work, so I'd like to make myself a speaker box that I can keep in there.

So, can anyone recommend a reasonably priced speaker that's kind of like "the standard speaker"? As in, if it sounds good with this, it's good? I've been using an Eminence Beta 8 that I had lying around, because I wouldn't be too sad if one of my transistor output stages shorted and fried it. But I think it gives a false impression, because it's not really a guitar speaker. And, I've got a couple of empty 1x12" speaker boxes, so it ought to be a 12".

Celestion are good for me, I live in the UK so they're reasonably cheap, but I can get Eminence too. I was thinking Vintage 30 or Eminence Legend?

Your $.02 much appreciated, Steve

[Robert M. Martinelli]

Hi all,

Lately I've been messing around with solid-state and hybrid designs, and trying to get a feel for how they sound. I have the opportunity to crank them up in the studio at work, so I'd like to make myself a speaker box that I can keep in there.

So, can anyone recommend a reasonably priced speaker that's kind of like "the standard speaker"? As in, if it sounds good with this, it's good?

Your $.02 much appreciated, Steve

Hi Steve,
If the question is "if it sounds good with this, it's good", as you said, why not take the opposite approach, looking at the matter from another standpoint, that is, taking a cheap "standard" ( in its most derogatory meaning ) speaker and hear how the amp sounds with it? This way you could really say to yourself "man, if it sounds good with this (crap), this amp is really good!

Using a very good speaker would always leave you with the doubt "it's sounding good because of the speaker, or because it actually is a good amp?"

JM2CW

Cheers

Bob

[Hardtailed]

It's a tough one to answer, usually amp companies will work their amp around a certain speaker. Like Mesa will voice them around the Celestion V30s cause that's what they ship it with.

I would say the ubiquitous V30 is probably the most common speaker right now, but I personally hate them...
They do have the advantage of high-sensitivity (100dB@1W) and good power handling, which is good for a SS or hybrid design, but they get harsh easily, which is not good for a SS or hybrid design!
But they are incredibly common...

If not, a good generally flat response speaker (as flat as a guitar speaker can be) with good power handling would be the Celestion Lead 80 (I think I got the name right).

Also, most people who do not really think much about it will just pickup a used Marshall quad box (they're plentiful and cheap), and 80% of them will be loaded with Celestion G12T-75.
I'm one of the weirdos that actually like the G12T, but then... I did build my amp around a 2X12 loaded with them so it's been voiced to work well with them.

So these 3 are "safe bets", depending on what your market will be.
Considering how many people blindly buy the Marshall quads, making an amp that plays well with the G12Ts is always a sound move.

[daz]

What about a EV12L? I know they aren't cheap, but used they aren't bad and they're flatter than most regular guitar speakers. This is what i use, and i like designing around it because it seem like if it sounds good with the EV it will sound good with most speakers assuming any peaks they have are desiravble generally. Theres is also a eminence version of a 12L (delta pro 12a) with the same cast frame and all that is supposedly very similar except fro a slight hi end roll-off. That one is about 1/2 to 1/3 as much as a EV new.

[Steve Conner]

Well, the EVM12L is a tempting option, since I've got one of the reissue versions But it's almost too good for this kind of job.

The Delta Pro 12A looks interesting, but I haven't seen them for sale over here.

[tubeswell]

I'm on a Greenback G12 high at the mo' (the 20W 'heritage' series) - don't know how you feel about that, but I think they are the bees knees, even in open back lowish powered tweed PP combos. You just have to tweak the bass roll-off, bass cut to get the flabbyness out of them and they are pretty spectacular.

(But everyone is going to have a bias toward their own mojo speaker.)

[pdf64]

I was thinking a G12T75 also, as a neutral sounding jack of all trades, with good power handling, without being overly efficient - a benefit for testing, but also having a fairly solid bass that other medium weight magnet speakers don't tend to have.
They're fine in open and closed back cabs, I've worked on a TR fitted with them and it still sound like a TR.
If / when you burn out the voicecoil with a quirky output stage, recone it cheaply or buy another 4 cheap off ebay from someone upgrading.
Granted an EVM12L will be more robust, but would you really want to expose it to a new output design without checking it first on something else (eg a G12T75)?
And a G12T75 is far more representitive of most guitar speakers than an EVM12L, which need a pile of treble boost on the amp to give the expected tonal balance.

[J M Fahey]

I think that if you want a "generic" sounding speaker, I think you can't get more generic than G12T75 UK wise or some of the Eminence Legends (take your pick) U.S. wise.
Although I *love* Greenbacks, G12H and V30, they are much less used, statistically than those mentioned earlier.
In fact *most* amps come with some Eminence, period, and Legends are "general public available" versions of popular OEM types (that also explains their relatively low cost)
Equalizing a new amp project around the excellent EVM12L or V30 might give dissapointing results when used with others.
Those "greek" Alphas, Betas, etc. are excellent speakers on their own right, but rather than "guitar" types, they are "PA" types, usually 3dB or mnore below similar structure guitar types and much flatter.(excellent for Jazz, though)
Just my 0.08$A(rgentine), roughly equivalent to 0.02 U$

[jrfrond]

In my mind, the best baseline would be the most ubiquitous speaker available, and to me, that is Eminence, either the Alpha or Beta series, and in fact, this is what my test cabinet is loaded with. Eminence are fairly flat and tend to be a bit on the shrill side, so you won't go overboard with overkill in the amps' mids and highs. Once you are in the ballpark, you can begin to marry the new design with different speakers. For me, those usually wind up being Jensen's.

[echuta13]

I would probably go for one of the speakers daz mentioned. I think they are a more balanced than most out there, and IMO initial voicing should be done with a more neutral speaker. So once initial tweaking is done, I would gravitate towards speakers that flavored the amp in a more particular way to see what fit best (alnico, ceramic, british, american, ect...) Again, just my $.02

[Chuck H]

A lot of recordings, combos, replacement/upgrades and boutique amps use the V30 as a base point. I personally love the V30. It does have an upper mid bump that gives it a specific character, but it also has many qualities more akin to the old Jensen speakers. The Eminence Legend GB128 is similar but a little more even (bland?) if you will. I like the GB128 too. But not as much as the V30. Upper mids is where guitars live in the mix.

I'll vote for the V30 or the GB128 just because they're so popular as the most affordable upper end speaker, and therefore the most used in "better" rigs overall.

Chuck

[Alex R]

A word about Eminence Deltas. I have had a lot of happiness and good responses with first the Eminence Delta Pro, then the Deltalite II, a neodymium speaker. They are both cast-frame EV-type speakers, in fact I think the Delta Pro is very close to the old EV guitar speakers. Though not that cheap they cost less than EVs. The Deltalite is a neo version and very handy indeed being gloriously light where the Delta Pro ceramics are very heavy. I like the sound of these speakers very much and use them in my test cabs. Basically you can hear everything the amp does through them, so that's one version of 'standard'. In Europe you can get them from thomann.de or Blue Aran. There's a 10", 12" and a 15".

[daz]

A word about Eminence Deltas. I have had a lot of happiness and good responses with first the Eminence Delta Pro, then the Deltalite II, a neodymium speaker. They are both cast-frame EV-type speakers, in fact I think the Delta Pro is very close to the old EV guitar speakers. Though not that cheap they cost less than EVs. The Deltalite is a neo version and very handy indeed being gloriously light where the Delta Pro ceramics are very heavy. I like the sound of these speakers very much and use them in my test cabs. Basically you can hear everything the amp does through them, so that's one version of 'standard'. In Europe you can get them from thomann.de or Blue Aran. There's a 10", 12" and a 15".

I've been using 12L's for many years but now and then i think about getting a delta. I always seem to eventually tell myself it's not worth chancing tho for fear it will me one more of those try and toss fiascos where 1/2 my freakin' life savings has already gone. What can you tell me about how the DP compares to the EV12L, and also how the neo version compares to the DP and 12L ? thanks.

[Wilder Amplification]

Been thinkin' about the 12Ls myself. The way I see it, if it's good enough for Zakk Wylde, it's definitely good enough for me.

[Groover]

I was thinking about this last night, and it occurred to me that perhaps you could take a cue from the record mixing paradigm, and use two or 3 speakers when voicing amps, switching between them. It is a useful practice in mixing to get different perspectives, why not for guitar amps? An EVM12L, a Greenback, and a Jensen perhaps?