Speaker Phase

[Bill Moore]

Once worked with a singer in a C&W band that showed up with Showman and 4-12 cabinet to play Rythm/Noise through. Could not get him to turn down, finally the bass player reversed the wiring on 2 speakers. I couldn't hear the difference on the bandstand, but about 15' out the sound was muted. Don't know if he ever knew about it.
Also JBL is always backwards, positive voltage on the red terminal will move the cone towards the magnet. Of course this doesn't matter unless you are mixing with other speakers. Was reminded of this a while back when I had an EV in the combo, and a JBL in the extension cab. Sitting between them and playing was wierd!

[hasserl]

Thanks for the reply. But I am not talking about speakers being in phase with other speakers. I am asking about a speaker being in phase with the amp. Like the phase flip on a Matchless amp. That is why I ask, it is really just a guess if the positive and negative designations on a speaker are actually in phase with the amp. Steve Kimock comes to mind......

I am not "thinking shit up". It was just a simple question. Like I said, talk to Kimock. But never mind, I will just ask on another forum.
Thank You

This topic has been the inspiration for many spirited debates over on The Gear Page. Kimock has been very vocal in several of those debates. He is one of many folks that believe the phase relationship of the amp to the speaker has a large effect on the sound, and that one way almost always sounds better than the other way. I.e. if you reverse the speaker leads on an amp the amp will respond differently, mostly the effect is in the trailing edge of the note and in feedback generation, due to phase coupling with the guitar. But others say the effect is even heard in the leading edge of the note, or the attack.

In these discussions Kimock can be very, shall we say, opinionated. He tends to have a bit of an attitude about him, and appears as if because he says it you should believe it, afterall he's Steve Kimock and you're not. And if you don't hear any difference it's because you're sense of hearing is not as developed as his. And if you doubt or question him you must be a real idiot, because, after all, he's Steve Kimock, and who the hell are you to doubt what he says about guitar amplifier sound. Of course, that makes it more than a little fun for antagonists like me to poke at him.

Most of the Dumble clone guys are big proponents of this, they build special speaker cables that flip the polarity of the signal so their amps are in phase with their speakers. Even though no one can, or will show they can identify the phase of the speaker in a blind test, they are absolutely adamant that the phase truly does make a difference in sound. It's almost like a religion, and they tend to get offended if you don't believe them.

[Albert Kreuzer]

Just to add to the discussion:
A couple of years ago I integrated a phase switch into a custom amp. It was a 2xEL34 PP design with a cathodyne PI (no NFB). The switch swapped the connections from the PI to the power tubes.
I operated the switch while the customer was playing. It wasn't a big difference, but clearly audible. In one position the tone was fatter and easier pushed into feedback. Which position was the "better" one depended on the distance and angle from guitar to amp.
Again, not a drastic difference, but not pure imagination either.

[Diablo]

I googled Kimock and speaker phase, and yes he claims he can hear the difference. So, I tried it with my Tweed Bassman clone by swapping the spade connectors on the speakers. I couldn't hear the difference, but maybe if I used a switch and changed over quicker I could?

I also googled some of his sound clips on youtube. He sounds like Jerry Garcia, and I didn't hear any good licks I'd like to steal. I honestly don't know what the fuss is about. Someone ought to teach him how to bend strings and vibrato.

[hasserl]

I honestly don't know what the fuss is about.

I don't either. I didn't know who he was either until I looked him up. I'm sorry, but like you, I wondered what the fuss was about. I mean, I'm sure he's a really good guitar player, he's obviously a pro and I'm not even close to being a pro. It's his livelihood and good for him. But I don't see myself buying any of his records or going to any of his shows in the near future. As far as speaker phase goes, ehhh, I'm skeptical as well. I did try this on a Super Reverb, because it's so easy to swap the two spade connctors. I didn't notice any difference. But I didn't have it cranked up either, so maybe that's why. For those that really claim to hear/feel a difference their take on it is that a note will sustain and bloom into feedback easier with the speaker polarity one way than it will with the opposite polarity. Seems to be something in the way the vibrations from the speaker couple with the guitar.

Of course, how this how works out with different pickups, with different FX pedals that all flip the polarity one or more times, and even with multiple channel amps that have different number of gain stages and phase inversions beats me. Seems like too much to worry about IMO. Kind of like trying to pick the fly shit out of the pepper.

[Diablo]

Kind of like trying to pick the fly shit out of the pepper.

While wearing boxing gloves......