Eminence Flux Density Modulation

[kg]

Wow, Here is my attempt at Grace:

We are comparing attenuating methods...So all of the following have no effect on the comparisons.

(how do you get around the lack of speaker cone breakup?

"speaker cone breakup" only comes into play when you drive the cone too far...we are limiting the cone movement in all these tests.... Via resistive methods, Eminence methods, FluxTone methods, over driving the pre-amp tube methods, limiting the B+ to the final methods, or re-amping with an inductive load. If part of "your tone" is derived from over-driving the X-max on your speaker....then the only way to attenuate that is a closet with a microphone. What this thread is about is, preserving those tones created by over-driving the output stage of a TUBE amp., while reducing the SPL in the room.

cabinet resonances?tube microphony?the change of amplifier load? i assume you've heard of fletcher-munson...)

All of the above is the same for all other measurements. That is to they are all identical for these tests.



MC

ahh.

so when you mean "no coloring of the tone" you really mean "less coloring of the tone."

i fail to see a substantial difference in weakening the motor strength via physical vs. electrical means. ultimately the only thing that matters is the number of lines of flux traversing the voice coil and the amount of current flowing through that coil. whether you reduce the flux or you reduce the current, the exact same effect can be achieved.

the more i think about it the more i have my doubts that weakening the speaker motor strength necessarily accomplishes a different final tone vs. a well tweaked/custom LCR attenuator. weakening the speaker motor is probably easier to implement with less iterations of testing component values and topology.

i will readily admit the method is "sexier" since it is not commonly used, and will likely enjoy great success as a result.

[Mr.coil]

No, actually the tones that FluxTone preserves are the ones created by two magnetic devices strapped together in an unavoidable battle of wills.

As soon as you put a resistor, or any power eating device, in between them you break that bond and the tones are never generated.

The tones that we are talking about are created when the output tubes are asked to make a sign wave larger than they can, this stress is exacerbated in the output "transformer-voice-coil" marriage. The tubes and transformer says "do this", the speaker says "I can not", there are ensuing back EMF's, round and round we go...and wallah! Tone is born, that is to say frequencies are created in that circuit that did not come out of your guitar. Those frequencies will not be born in a amp that has no "tube driven output transformer". And they will not be born until the output stage is clipped, and they will not be born if there is a resister in between the output transformer and the voice coil.

That's why most people say "Well that Master volume control turns down the amp alright, but it killed the tone". That is because those type of attenuators allow for PRE-AMP tube clipping, and the output stage merely re-amps that sound. That is a different tone than an output stage being over-driven.

I am not saying FluxTone is the cure all for everything...90-some% of all players are completely satisfied with pedals and the like...as they should be...they are inexpensive and lightweight! But there are those who can hear the difference and have wanted a solution for quite sometime. When those players finally hear what we have done....They are very grateful.

Thanks
MC

[kg]

um...

ok.

good luck with your product!

[Mr.coil]

thanks
MC

[Mr.coil]

JM,....Let me know if this works.....

1) Go to United States Patent & Trademark Office

2) Then enter the application number in the field provided: 11768484

And from there, the Image File Wrapper tab will have links to particular documents, and in addition, there are other tabs that are self explanatory.

[J M Fahey]

Hi Steve ... congratulations !!!
Wish you a ton of good luck with this.
I've read it quickly because it's 2:30 AM here, I have to wake up early tomorrow (in 4 or 5 hours) but didn't want to sleep before congratulating you.
Hope all goes smoothly with Mr Kim.
I'll re-read 10 times (no kidding) the claims, because they are the ones which make or break a patent.
I loved the legalese; unfortunately it's needed and then some.
Good luck.

[Mr.coil]

JM,

If you would like to test one of our speakers, we would be happy to send one out to you for a while.

MC

[J M Fahey]

Thanks Steve, it's very kind of you.
Unfortunately we live some 8000 miles from each other, but if I am ever within a 300 mile radius, I'll make a detour and visit the factory.
Good luck.

[Mr.coil]

ok

[wizard333]

Waitaminnut................

Did I see you say that for guitar frequencies, size of cab doesn't matter, just open vs. closed back??

[Mr.coil]

No, I dont believe I said that.

[Mr.coil]

J M..a favor please?

Could you recommend someone here on this site, state side, that would be interested in trying out one of our pieces?... Maybe someone that should know tone-vs-spl, but is still a bit of a skeptic?

I may have already talked to them...but I cant seem to navigate this site with any reliability...and I do not want to hand out to just anyone.

Thanks
MC

[wizard333]

speakers operate way above the frequencies that are effected by cabinet shape and size. About the only thing that is of measurable importance in a Guitar speaker cabinet is whether it is open or closed back, and where you place the microphone.

Thats the quote that has me confused. Can you explain what you meant here?

If you're talking about SPL vs Tone, the test would be to listen to the speaker at a moderate level, then turn the attenuation on but turn the amp up to compensate so that you are actually listening at the same SPL with the attenuation on vs. off, that way you are holding the variables as constant as you can. (Caveat: Amp be operating clean at both volumes; obviously if you are ovedriving the amp significantly more to compensate its going to sound different.... Maybe this could best be done with a PA amp operating cleanly)

If you have a good ear, its not that tough to distinguish SPL vs. tone, just the untrained listener often comes away thinking "loud is better", but one would hope people who mod/build/design amps have less trickable ears than that.

My question about the whole adjustable flux speaker thing is, even if the whole adjustable flux thing works as described, do the speakers SOUND GOOD to start with? My reservation on the whole thing is something like this: "Well, even if it works, its expensive, and why pay lots of money for an expensive attenuator on a speaker I don't like the tone of to begin with?" Summary: I don't think you can polish a turd, and if they aren't great sounding speakers to start with, the fact that they can attenuate and be quieter doesn't really grab me.

[pdf64]

"Well, even if it works, its expensive, and why pay lots of money for an expensive attenuator on a speaker I don't like the tone of to begin with?"

I guess that's why Fluxtone offer a number of models which have the vital parts (except the magnet) of classic speakers, bought from the original manufacturer, eg Jensen C12N, Celestion V30, Greenback etc; so that you already know (and like!) the tone of what you're buying.
The downside is that those models are the expensive ones in the Fluxtone range.

[kg]

frankly i do not think fluxtone has demonstrated enough original art to warrant a patent.

then again, randall smith isn't much of an artist either, so who knows.

that said, the patent process protects the idea, and to a small extent, the implementation. from what i have seen online of the fluxtone lineup they seem to be VERY well constructed, and i'm sure quality pieces--the execution appears well done.

the fact that bruce gave a shoutout doesn't go unnoticed, at least to me.