Lowering my 50W Plexi clone efficiency

[olddawg]

[QUOTE=Chuck H;208953]Buying a well respected "production" amp and then adding a better speaker, known circuit mod, tubes, etc., may be the most cost effective way to get a good tone at any wattage. [QUOTE]

Absolutely! And a VJ is one of those. I'm sure I don't have to remind anyone on this board that many of the legendary leads and passages were recorded with Champs, AC4s, Champion 600s, etc. You can argue about OT upgrades and such with the cheap new stuff, but the original OTs used were sourced off the shelf, whatever was available, that wasn't even designed with guitar use in mind. Maybe you have a touch more hiss from cheaper components....maybe. So what? PCB based...so what?

[Chuck H]

[QUOTE=olddawg;209015]Absolutely!... You can argue about OT upgrades and such with the cheap new stuff,[QUOTE]

+ to that. That's why I said "a well respected production amp". The iron in the Peavey Classic line and Fender HR line perform and sound just fine as far as I can tell. But anything made by Loud (Crate, BlackHeart, etc.) seems questionable. Mercury Magnetics is making a killing selling upgrade iron for these amps.

[Hardtailed]

I always find it funny when those debate of modding vs building vs buying erupt on a forum like this... I think it's safe to assume we're all here cause we like tinkering ourselves (well, except the occasional newbie asking if he can build a spot-on Dual Recto clone for 300$).

When I find a VJ type amp that gives me the tone I want, I'll consider it. Not saying they sound bad, but they're not what I'm after.

I do have a 5E3 build next on my list though, mostly for fun. If it works with the fun, then great! I do need a clean tone at band volume once in a while though, so we'll see.

[Chuck H]

I do need a clean tone at band volume once in a while though

My personal amp is only about 15W clean. The key phrase above is "band volume". If there's a band there's almost always a P.A. I use (and include on all my builds) a speaker coupled adjustable line out. My 15W amp cranked into OD is putting out about 20W. This is about right for practice and gigs since the OD tone doesn't seem to need as many watts as a clean tone to present itself in a mix (compression, dynamics, etc...). Let's face it, a good clean tone needs more like 50W. If I do need more OD volume (outdoor gigs, big venues) I mic the cab. Then for the clean tone (achieved by rolling down the guitar volume) I have the amps line out run into an A/B box and then into the P.A. The A/B box is used as an on/off to send signal to a channel on the P.A. for a volume boost when running clean or to boost leads. If you have an amp that gives you a clean tone you like you could add a line out to it really easy. You could even build it in it's own box that the amps output plugs into.

[olddawg]

I always find it funny when those debate of modding vs building vs buying erupt on a forum like this... I think it's safe to assume we're all here cause we like tinkering ourselves (well, except the occasional newbie asking if he can build a spot-on Dual Recto clone for 300$).

When I find a VJ type amp that gives me the tone I want, I'll consider it. Not saying they sound bad, but they're not what I'm after.

I do have a 5E3 build next on my list though, mostly for fun. If it works with the fun, then great! I do need a clean tone at band volume once in a while though, so we'll see.

Truthfully, VJs make great little buzz bombs but you will never get clean headroom out of a 5 watt amp at any volume. (Although I have played clubs with my VJ miced up.) You did say you wanted to breakup at a lower volume and it is an inexpensive solution (The combos suck IMHO. The head version through a closed back cab with bigger speakers please ). My favorite compromise is an 18 watt Marshall clone. They will scream if you want (with an OD pedal) and clean up when you back off on your volume control. (Not big Fender clean but clean enough) I even built one into a 100 watt Marshall headbox for looks. It's my main stage amp.

[MWJB]

"Truthfully, VJs make great little buzz bombs but you will never get clean headroom out of a 5 watt amp at any volume."

Olddawg, that statement is based on SE, cathode biased, no tone stack, inefficient speakered, "entry level" 5W amps. 5W is a measure of the clean W RMS into a resistive load...and this is the crux of what I have said in earlier posts...an amp's loudness is not measured in W, its measured in dB. SE amp's power tubes work hard amplifying the signal but OT efficiency & clean sound out is limited. A 5W push pull amp, with >400vdc B+, big transformers, efficient speakers with a large speaker area can give you headroom that an off the shelf, SE, entry level amp could never achieve. I have a couple of amps that can be set to 5-7W (at full bore, not clean W RMS) 6L6 or 6550 tubes, B+ at rectifier from 470vdc to 510vdc, from 2x10 to 4x10 to 2x10+4x8 that have headroom that you will never see from a V Jr. I have to point out that you also "moved the goalposts" by revealing that you used a more efficient cab with more sq. inches than a stock Epi V Jr.

W RMS is a very poor guide to loudness. It only makes a certain amount of sense when we compare amps with similar characteristics.

There are more sophisticated 5W cheap amps than the Epi V Jr, so maybe I'm being a pedant by focusing on that...but a Epi V Jr out of the box is hardly an inspring tone machine at any volume...a good basis for mods perhaps.

[olddawg]

"Truthfully, VJs make great little buzz bombs but you will never get clean headroom out of a 5 watt amp at any volume."

Olddawg, that statement is based on SE, cathode biased, no tone stack, inefficient speakered, "entry level" 5W amps. 5W is a measure of the clean W RMS into a resistive load...and this is the crux of what I have said in earlier posts...an amp's loudness is not measured in W, its measured in dB. SE amp's power tubes work hard amplifying the signal but OT efficiency & clean sound out is limited. A 5W push pull amp, with >400vdc B+, big transformers, efficient speakers with a large speaker area can give you headroom that an off the shelf, SE, entry level amp could never achieve. I have a couple of amps that can be set to 5-7W (at full bore, not clean W RMS) 6L6 or 6550 tubes, B+ at rectifier from 470vdc to 510vdc, from 2x10 to 4x10 to 2x10+4x8 that have headroom that you will never see from a V Jr. I have to point out that you also "moved the goalposts" by revealing that you used a more efficient cab with more sq. inches than a stock Epi V Jr.

W RMS is a very poor guide to loudness. It only makes a certain amount of sense when we compare amps with similar characteristics.

There are more sophisticated 5W cheap amps than the Epi V Jr, so maybe I'm being a pedant by focusing on that...but a Epi V Jr out of the box is hardly an inspring tone machine at any volume...a good basis for mods perhaps.

My god...All I ever meant was if you want decent tube saturtion distortion at low volume it's a good choice and an inexpensive option rather than butchering up a bigger amp. A lot of people love VJs and love the simplicity. If you're not one of them that's cool. But just because you find them "uninspiring" doesn't mean that someone else shouldn't try one.

[MWJB]

Apologies Olddawg if you think I am making heavy going of this, but I can only respond to what you actually post, rather than what you "mean", or "intend" to imply. It is the 2nd half of the statement that I was principally commenting on. Anyone is free to buy whatever amp they want as far as I am concerned.