Mustard on that?

[Chuck H]

Just sharing a quandry of mine. I've decided after many dusty years on the shelf to fix up and sell my '91 Marshall 1959slp. It's been used as a mod platform (but no extra holes) so it needs the circuit restored as well as tubes and electrolytic caps. Soooo...

Do I build/buy a vintage board or an eyelet board and go the full CC resistor and mustard cap route, which seems to be popular but is of course rediculous. Or do I rebuild the amp with modern film caps and resistors and just sell it as a working amp? For the work I'll probably net more profit by doing the bogus vintage thing but it makes me feel greasy and dishonest. OTOH I have used CC resistors at the request of customers (though I refuse to use them for plate supplies) just because I do want them to be happy and confident in their gear.

I know it's gray area and prone to opinions but I thought it might make for a good thread.

[Steve Conner]

Well, given that we hear what we expect to hear, you might as well make your customer expect to hear something special.

I'd go the vintage route, but don't use any components that you feel might compromise reliability or actually make it sound worse. I think you can get modern caps that look like the mustard ones.

[clyde1]

This sounds familiar as I just reinstalled the trem circuit in a '67 Plexi 1959. This amp had many miles (Oh the stories I'm sure it could tell) and much work done to it in the past, most of which was just repair only, no heed taken to "vintage" component selection and at the time, such notions probably didn't exist. I used Xicon and Mallory film caps and carbon film resistors, teflon wire and changed a few bad pots with Alphas of the correct values, subbing a 3m for the 2m trem pot. The owner decided to trade the amp and the repair person at the store slammed the work done by myself and others as not being original. The amp cosmetically is unaltered, no untoward holes or extra switches but has had non-original caps and resistors installed in the course of it's storied career, in other words, whatever the repair person had on hand. I wasn't instructed to restore the amp, just to make the trem functional, which I did. Now I know the repair person had his company hat on and was just trying to talk the value down, but non-original parts do affect what the amp is worth to some. If you give full disclosure to what's been done, I don't think it's bogus at all to use original parts if you can source them. Kudos to you if you can find them. The amp I had didn't conform to any known schematic that I could reference so good luck finding original parts. As your amp is a little newer Chuck, I'm sure you'll have an easier time of it and whichever way you go I'm sure it'll be killer. Your call.

[Chuck H]

Well, now, to me a '67 Super Trem has cool factor without the need for vintage correct parts. And being as this amp of mine NEVER had vintage parts my consideration is to introduce cool factor by rebuilding it with them. From what I've seen a set of mustard caps for this project can be purchased for US $90 to $140. Considering the work that will go into this and the extra $$$ at sale it's a good deal. Still struggling with the idea of carbon comp resistors for plate loads and cathode follower tail. HISSSsssssssss.

If I do the vintage thing I'll of course leave in the IEC connector (how to change it?) and the modern impedance selector (too many failures with the old ones). Anyone know where to get a vintage correct board? I can make an eyelet board, but that's not vintage corect for a Plexi. They were built on PCB's.
The original board is still in there but it has thin traces, component spacing for modern parts and not quite the same layout.

[tubeswell]

I have a bunch of 22nF mustard caps that I got for $2 ea and so when the occasion calls for a 22nF cap, they're the ones I use - vintage amp or not. If the 100nF were cheaper I'd probably get a few of them too.

[riz]

They were built on PCB's.

I think you might be mistaken about that, Chuck. I don't think they went PCB until '74, at the end of the "plexi" era. Do some googling...

To me, there's nothing at all wrong with doing the vintage dress-up. If you're not super into it, then don't try too hard to push it, just let it sell itself, which it should no problem.

[J M Fahey]

I much prefer "ketchup" caps.





















Sorry, couldn´t resist

[Chuck H]

I think you might be mistaken about that, Chuck. I don't think they went PCB until '74, at the end of the "plexi" era. Do some googling...

To me, there's nothing at all wrong with doing the vintage dress-up. If you're not super into it, then don't try too hard to push it, just let it sell itself, which it should no problem.

I appreciate all vintage accurate info and corrections. Your right that the coveted plexi's were not pcb's. But there are a bunch of pcb Super Leads too. I thought most were pcb's because I used to have a '73 Super Lead with a pcb and mustard caps. Thanks for the correction.

[Enzo]

Watch out for those ketchup caps, there have been reports of some coming in from Asia that are really just relabelled sriracha caps. Makes the amps run... hot.

[cminor9]

I only use the fanciest Dijon ketchups!

[Chuck H]

OK... Found some mustard caps. I asked the seller about them, but he was clueless.

[Enzo]

Now that is darned odd...

[EFK]

Actually, aren't all these guys putting CC in Marshalls historically inaccurate also? I mean if you want to split hairs, aren't all those old 'red' resistors some kind of carbon film? They sure look like it anyway.

[dai h.]

it sort of is. Some did have carbon comp (and CC in plate R positions--the ones which supposedly make a diff.--at least as far as I understood) but overall (from looking at numerous chassis) their presence was in the minority. Some of the very early amps had mostly CC (prototype JTM45 comes to mind) but I would say mostly carbon film overall. To me, it looks apparent that Marshall used whatever they could get (probably whatever they could get cheaply). So if you look at the actual chassis, there is a mix of CF, CC, sometimes different wattages (1/4W where there would usually be a 1/2W, 2W where it's usually a 1/2W), numerous cap brands over the years(TCC, Philips, Dubilier, Wima, Hunts, Iskra--so not limited to one brand), sometimes even what appear to be cases of "desperate parts substitution" with two 10nF ceramics in place of the usual 22nF film. The small caps also varied with a mix of mica, ceramic (non-temp. compensating), and temp. compensating ceramic. Also see cases where values were subbed/altered/erroneously installed/experimented with(?).

oh, and the red ones should be made by Piher (the cream ones with squared off ends are Iskra).

[Enzo]

I never got the impression the CC freaks are after historical accuracy. Seemed to me they just wanted the CC mojo, whatever it might be. Like someone who just MUST have orange drops, no matter what.

Of course, I could be wrong.