Mustard on that?

[J M Fahey]

No, you are not, of course.
*Real* truth is:

To me, it looks apparent that Marshall used whatever they could get (probably whatever they could get cheaply).

which is what *every* Manufacturer in the World does.

A "Boutique maker", by definition, is *not* "a" Manufacturer, simply because anybody who makes singly "the same product" that a Manufacturer makes, at least, by the thousands, can´t compete because his costs in small scale are much higher (no bulk buys , or direct from Distributor/OEM).
So he *must* depend on Mojo to sell.
Unfortunately, as most of us know, just having higher quality is not enough, because the customer usually does not perceive it very well.
They need some simple, easy to verify "quality indicators", such as "Mustard/Orange/whatever" caps (easy to check, unless he is color blind), "no PCBs inside", "turret boards", "Hiwatt type wiring", "chickenhead knobs" and stuff like that.
Oh well.

[Chuck H]

Now that is darned odd...

It would be if it were real... The word "clueless" was a CLUE.

[big_teee]

OK... Found some mustard caps. I asked the seller about them, but he was clueless.

Don't know anything about Mustards, did your 90s amp have them in it?
I'm more into Functionality than Vintage.
I like the Sozo Caps.
The Sozos are costly enough.
B_T

[Chuck H]

A set of actual NOS mustards for less than $150 US buys a lot of interest in the amp. The Sozo's are what, about $2.50 each? So that would be under $20 for the whole amp. So, $130 for clout??? Probably still a good idea. It's almost a guarantee that real mustard caps will fetch better than their added value and sell the amp. So, when I consider the labor, it's looking like NOS.

[big_teee]

A set of actual NOS mustards for less than $150 US buys a lot of interest in the amp. The Sozo's are what, about $2.50 each? So that would be under $20 for the whole amp. So, $130 for clout??? Probably still a good idea. It's almost a guarantee that real mustard caps will fetch better than their added value and sell the amp. So, when I consider the labor, it's looking like NOS.

Too Steep for my Blood.
Do they still make the Mustards, or do you have to find the originals.
If so, when did they quit making them.
T

[soundmasterg]

Too Steep for my Blood.
Do they still make the Mustards, or do you have to find the originals.
If so, when did they quit making them.
T

They stopped making Mustards a long time ago...probably late 60's early 70's I would guess. That is why Sozo came out with their "Mustard clone" caps.....to get something that sounded the same and/or cash in on the vintage aspect of them and make some money. The old Mustards are often about as leaky as old Astrons, which means they almost always leak...in my experience of seeing them anyway. When they don't leak they sound good, but then so do Sozos, M150's, Orange Drops, etc.

If you're trying to get top dollar for the amp, then some non-leaky Mustards are definitly the way to go.

I have a 1956 5E3 tweed deluxe that I worked on several years back for the previous owner. Every cap in the amp needed to be replaced and I gave him the old ones in a bag, and he threw them all away....haha. So now I have the amp, and it sounds great, but if I was going to sell it, I would probably hunt down NOS caps like you to get top dollar.

Greg

[dai h.]

which is what *every* Manufacturer in the World does.

yes but try convincing someone with a mojo-addled mind (or try getting a seller to deviate from claims of greater mojo infusion with "point-to-point", etc.).

A "Boutique maker", by definition, is *not* "a" Manufacturer, simply because anybody who makes singly "the same product" that a Manufacturer makes, at least, by the thousands, can´t compete because his costs in small scale are much higher (no bulk buys , or direct from Distributor/OEM). So he *must* depend on Mojo to sell.

could be part of it is that the "boutique maker" doesn't quite understand (much or maybe even hardly understands) what they are doing, so end up tending to stress the mojo aspects. Maybe it's just less hassle to just "go with the flow", put in some mustards or whatever and charge accordingly ("This obviously must be worth $$$ because it has the mustards plus the brown perf board, authentic Pihers and Iskras." and so on). But then again, I see cases where an amp tweaker or builder may have dug themselves a hole (when they thought they were making a mountain) by "improving", say a limited edition PCB amp with PTP turret board "authentic mustards", etc. thinking they were making a limited edition amp even more valuable and maybe actually making it less appealing to a collector. Or someone (apparently) having gone to really great lengths to collect numerous "vintage exact" parts to create a clone of a Bassman, and thinking that since what they made is made of up of those parts, by virtue of that they were going to easily command a huge sum from a buyer. Having said that though reality can be more complex and maybe the authenticizer guy is famous and *can* command the big bucks, so...hard to say 100% what happens in reality (or in time).

The old Mustards are often about as leaky as old Astrons, which means they almost always leak...in my experience of seeing them anyway.

are you sure you aren't confusing them with something else? From what I know (small no. of "mustards" I have and what I've read of them) they typically are not leaky. OTOH, CDE "Black Cat", Sprague BB, many oils and such typically are (IME) to varying degrees.

[Steve Conner]

I don't really trust NOS caps! I certainly wouldn't pay a premium for them. I'd use the Sozo mustard clones, it seems kind of appropriate given that the amp itself is a reissue.

[diagrammatiks]

A set of actual NOS mustards for less than $150 US buys a lot of interest in the amp. The Sozo's are what, about $2.50 each? So that would be under $20 for the whole amp. So, $130 for clout??? Probably still a good idea. It's almost a guarantee that real mustard caps will fetch better than their added value and sell the amp. So, when I consider the labor, it's looking like NOS.

at this point for your target audience sozo's probably have as much clout as mustard caps fwiw.

if you were rebuilding just to sell it for the most possible gain and have no concern for your personal opinions on the subject that might be the way to go.

[soundmasterg]

are you sure you aren't confusing them with something else? From what I know (small no. of "mustards" I have and what I've read of them) they typically are not leaky. OTOH, CDE "Black Cat", Sprague BB, many oils and such typically are (IME) to varying degrees.

The ones I have come across have mostly been leaky, and certainly those others you mentioned are almost always leaky too. Maybe my experience with Mustards is isolated? I like the old Wima Tropyfols a lot that they put in the Voxes, but they're hard to find. I have a bunch of NOS .22uf and .1uf of those, but don't get a use for those sizes often. I haven't seen one of those leak yet, and they sound pretty good.

Greg

[dai h.]

well I do remember one instance where someone mentioned the ones they had were leaky (Nik from Ceriatone who is in Malaysia--perhaps the humidity was a factor in that case?). Bought a small no. of 2n2, 2n7, and maybe a 4n7 or two from AES long ago before I had any idea what they were (they were just sold as surplus caps--oh had I only known!)--and they were real cheap. I put those (and a bunch of other) caps in my 50W Marshall (coupling cap position) with a pair of alligator clips sticking out of a pair of eyelets inserted into holes in the PCB so I could test caps I had for leakage, and those were some that measured favorably (one of those blue molded caps oft seen in Fenders was low leakage as well). IIRC there was also some info related to reliability of old caps (incl. "mustards") on a British bbs mainly concerning radios (forget the name) and the Philips were mentioned as having good reliability.

I don't really trust NOS caps! I certainly wouldn't pay a premium for them.

I would *accept* a premium for old caps someone wanted to buy.

I'd use the Sozo mustard clones, it seems kind of appropriate given that the amp itself is a reissue.

I think it'd be a good choice if an original-style turret board was fitted (PCB holes might not have the correct spacing). As far as need though I don't think you need to put them in for a good sound. Generally I would think polyester or metal. polyester would be fine for a Marshall (partly based on my long ago cap swapping frenzy). Ceramic (non-temp. compensating) or mica/temp.compensating might matter more (non-temp. ceramic seem to have most distortion vs. the mica and temp. compensating ceramics seen in old Marshalls). In the end, probably a taste thing though I suspect (if there was a preference test) you might get groupings of preferred (cap type) combos.