Panasonic EE series caps as PS filter caps?

[Chuck H]

Do amps that use them all suffer from hum and ghost notes? Saw the case open and see if there's an F'd up waxy slug inside that's leaking. That'll tell you.

[dai h.]

as far as I know, united chemicon, nippon chemi-con, rubycon, and one other company are all the same...

but I haven't been able to verify that myself yet.

Rubycon is a different company (Rubycon, Nichi-con, Nippon Chemi-con, Panasonic--all makers of alu electrolytics--are different companies). Nippon-Chemi-con owns UCC (I think--the UCC caps appear the same as NCC on a number of series I've seen save for the name inside the logo mark).

(info appears correct) :

United Chemi-Con is a subsidiary of Nippon Chemi-Con

United Chemi-Con

I've also seen those "UCC exact lookalikes" to Sprague ATOM and have assumed they are the same thing. As I recall a company called "BMI" made some of the ATOM series (the black-sleeved ones) as well. I think it's the same elsewhere. "Suncon" apparently made alu electros for Sanyo (branded Sanyo) but now since Sanyo quit production they are marked with the original manf. name (i.e. "Suncon").

Also I think I've posted before that Japanese manf.s ceased making axial alu electros but apparently this was not entirely correct. Nichicon apparently does a limited run of (VX?--they are in the Mouser catalog) for replacement purposes (--not recommended for production--though "limited" might possibly be a relatively large quantity).

[guitician]

Update with interesting news...

Inside was the typical much smaller cap in a big can thing that Atoms are already known for. But also A LOT of crystaline crust around the cap "plug" and more powder and larger flakes inside the outer can. I have to assume this was crystalized electrolyte and aluminum oxide that oozed out of the cap plug. The Atom cap was purchased new from Mouser and used immediately. Again, about two years ago. Whether this is Spragues fault for selling an old cap, Mousers fault for selling an old cap, my fault for not "charging" new caps (which I never have), or some QC or electrolyte formula failure I can't say. I can say that I'm having similar issues in another amp that isn't quite four years old that was built with the same caps (presumebly from a different batch since they were purchased over a year before). I can also say that I won't be buying any more Atom caps.

I bet that those failed because of the heat staying inside the can. If they had added some kind of cooling gel between the small cap and the large can it may have lived a much longer life. It must be more of that "Initial Quality" I keep hearing advertised. They like riding the ATOM reputation though....

[Steve Conner]

I guess that's a possibility. Or maybe because the capacitor is such a loose fit in the can, the electrolytic goop seeps out and gets away from the electrodes.

[J M Fahey]

I would just drop Mojo in the trash can, where it belongs, and user proper modern spec caps.
The specs I mean are capacitance and voltage rating.
Do not even care about ESR because I can reasonably assume it´s better than "what Leo got", simply because of technology advances.
My bread and butter are SS mid price amps, and the only tube amp I can usually persuaded to build is a Bassman/Plexi/JTM45/JCM800/AC50 type, all of which can be built on a PCB I made (yes, I said PCB ) , which to add insult to injury uses EPCOS (ex Siemens) 47uF x450V and 22uFx450V wherever needed.
Radials, of course.
What else?
They work like a charm, never have problems.
Or to be more precise: problems are usually from junky quality modern tubes.
I lowered +B to around 400V, which keeps everybody happy.
Amps put out around 40W RMS , which is plenty.
Most people want attenuators anyway !!!
Most people also either add their own distortion boxes or even worse, multi-effects pedalboards or even POD like stuff.
My "basic" tube amp only provides final tube oomph! and nicely warm up digital fizzyness.
Everybody´s happy.
Specially me, who can churn out a new one in 2 days.

[guitician]

I guess that's a possibility. Or maybe because the capacitor is such a loose fit in the can, the electrolytic goop seeps out and gets away from the electrodes.

Yeah, and the heat build up causes more goop to seep.

These are what I'm looking to use for my new builds...
Polymer capacitor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[tedmich]

Yeah, and the heat build up causes more goop to seep.

These are what I'm looking to use for my new builds...
Polymer capacitor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

polymers are more stable than typical EL caps BUT you are hard pressed to find voltages higher than 63v, and 8 series caps to get a ~500v is a little too involved IMO. Panasonic and CDE are in the lead for cap volumetric efficiency, heres a 110uf 500v axial I made from 2 CDE 381LX's



(100uf is a typo)
a hole in the middle of the shrink tube pointing down toward board maintains the top vent, the 330k resistors are on the PCB underside
The Lelon isn't too bad

[guitician]

These have got to be the smallest 450V caps I've ever seen...Buy Aluminium Al Cap UJ series SMT 4.7uF 450V Nichicon UUJ2W4R7MNQ1MS online from RS for next day delivery.
12.5mm x 16mm?? 4.7uf 450V??

They supposedly have developed 100V ratings for conductive polymer, but I have been unable to find then in either CV or LV types.
http://www.nichicon.co.jp/english/new/new105.html

[Steve Conner]

Conductive polymer is a specialty ultra-low ESR formula, targeted at DC-DC converters in computers. Nobody makes them for high voltages, as far as I know, and they are extremely pricey. We pay something like 5 bucks for one the size of a pinky nail, but the ESR is only about 10 milliohms.

The Sanyo OS-Con was the granddaddy of the genre, but there are lots of others now.

[guitician]

Yeah, I know that organic polymer is special. Who wants to use an old cap design that uses some goop that dries up, or oozes out....
But anyway, I wasn't going for the OS-CON for tube amps, just my SS amp.

[diagrammatiks]

I would just drop Mojo in the trash can, where it belongs, and user proper modern spec caps.
The specs I mean are capacitance and voltage rating.
Do not even care about ESR because I can reasonably assume it´s better than "what Leo got", simply because of technology advances.
My bread and butter are SS mid price amps, and the only tube amp I can usually persuaded to build is a Bassman/Plexi/JTM45/JCM800/AC50 type, all of which can be built on a PCB I made (yes, I said PCB ) , which to add insult to injury uses EPCOS (ex Siemens) 47uF x450V and 22uFx450V wherever needed.
Radials, of course.
What else?
They work like a charm, never have problems.
Or to be more precise: problems are usually from junky quality modern tubes.
I lowered +B to around 400V, which keeps everybody happy.
Amps put out around 40W RMS , which is plenty.
Most people want attenuators anyway !!!
Most people also either add their own distortion boxes or even worse, multi-effects pedalboards or even POD like stuff.
My "basic" tube amp only provides final tube oomph! and nicely warm up digital fizzyness.
Everybody´s happy.
Specially me, who can churn out a new one in 2 days.

those epcos caps are pretty great.

[R.G.]

Polymer caps? High voltages?

Motor run caps.

They will be the highest volumetric efficiency for the C*V product available, and there is a large industrial market that drives them to be that way, so they will continue to be as good a deal as possible. They are also designed and rated for high power use, so they will withstand heavy power supply use. And they will never dry out or need replacing except for catastrophic failures.

All part of the Immortal Amplifier (tm) concept!

[diagrammatiks]

Polymer caps? High voltages?

Motor run caps.

They will be the highest volumetric efficiency for the C*V product available, and there is a large industrial market that drives them to be that way, so they will continue to be as good a deal as possible. They are also designed and rated for high power use, so they will withstand heavy power supply use. And they will never dry out or need replacing except for catastrophic failures.

All part of the Immortal Amplifier (tm) concept!

DC-Link old man RG.

Motor run is so 2010.

[Steve Conner]

What, no GTO snubber caps?

The new "DC Link" film capacitors are quite interesting, though.

[dai h.]

Conductive polymer is a specialty ultra-low ESR formula, targeted at DC-DC converters in computers. Nobody makes them for high voltages, as far as I know, and they are extremely pricey. We pay something like 5 bucks for one the size of a pinky nail, but the ESR is only about 10 milliohms.

The Sanyo OS-Con was the granddaddy of the genre, but there are lots of others now.

from what I understand the recent low ESR alu electros have comparably low ESR (I see specs around the single milliohm range@100kHz), but the (one of the big) advantage(s) of OS-Cons are their longevity. Alu electros double with every 10 deg. C lowering of temp. but OS-Cons increase tenfold, so potentially, they can live for a very long time. So something like a server is probably a good app for them. They had some cons also (leakage not very low, higher voltage ratings not avail., failing short mode, high price, potential instability if straight swapped in a design made for alu electros and their typically relatively higher ESR--possibly others). The original Sanyo ones AFAIK have ceased production, but other series (and other equivalents from other makers) seem to be avail. (I'm not sure what the exact difference is).