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Hotcat volume question

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  • Hotcat volume question

    Hi having some issues with a clone I built. I suspected the volume was rather low on my amp but finally got to test a genuine amp last week. The original has a clean channel with one gain stage into a LTP PI then push pull cathode biased EL34 pair. I get a reading of 17VAC across the speaker with a clean output on my scope and the power tube grids have 20vac signal. When I try to get a clean sine wave on my clone it gives up at about 10vac across the grids of the power tube. If I keep dialling up the volume to reach 20vac on the grids and 17vac across the speaker I get a distorted sine wave that looks like this. The PI output is clean
    I've got voltages that match across each stage but the transformer set is different. TDS supplied a laydown set with "MPT 45" on the PT and "OT 30" on the OT after a friend negotiated a Hotcat set from the TDS. These transformers don't look like the original standups but the documentation had the right specs so they were used for the build. I suspect they were meant for a BlackCat 4 el84 build? The power tubes are running at 71ma 29 watts each. The original amp is running at 84ma 30 watts. Rather hot I know.
    Sorry if this post is incoherent, rambling etc. I'll attach a link to the only? schem of the amp on the net and at the moment I've taken off the gain channel input and brilliance to keep it simple. I've been over the PI and power tubes several times checking values and possible signal to ground problems. As I said the PI can put 20vac clean into the power tube grids but the output is distorted with a double? peak across the top of the sine wave. Thanks in advance Joe
    http://www.webphix.com/schematic%20h..._hotcat_30.pdf

    p.s. I was pretty sure that the grid leak bias on the first stage of the gain channel was reversed with the 1 meg but the original amp (early model) has the 5 meg at the input jack to ground and the 1 meg at the control grid. I built mine reverse to the schem and it works fine
    Attached Files

  • #2
    It's likely the PI isn't clean to both grids or one of your output valves is bad (or both or there are other problems ). What is the DC voltage at the EL34 cathodes at rest? It wouldn't be uncommon for them to be slightly different. What about with the above signal being produced?

    I don't believe the amp is grid leak biased- it's probably an additional blocking cap to keep DC off of the guitar's volume control.

    jamie

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    • #3
      I've seen the double peak effect only once before. I was using a common L-pad for a load. Any normal load (proper attenuator, speaker, resistive dummy load) didn't cause the problem. Since you say the signal from the PI is clean, and assuming you ran the good working amp into the same load without the double peak problem, I'll guess your OT might be funny. Not funny "ha ha" but funny the way fish smells. Do you have access to another OT you can temp wire in there?
      "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

      "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

      "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
      You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz

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      • #4
        First off, sorry I posted here as Troubleshooting would have been a better place to post.

        "It's likely the PI isn't clean to both grids or one of your output valves is bad (or both or there are other problems ). What is the DC voltage at the EL34 cathodes at rest? It wouldn't be uncommon for them to be slightly different. What about with the above signal being produced?

        I don't believe the amp is grid leak biased- it's probably an additional blocking cap to keep DC off of the guitar's volume control." imaradiostar

        I have different EL34 tubes in the amp at the moment as the original set of matched JJ EL34 had a grid blow on one of the tubes. Don't have any spares with me so I've got a Valve Art EL34B sitting next to a JJ EL34L. Swapped the tubes and the signal output swapped sides so it seems to be one of the tubes. As they have individual cathode resistors I thought I could use different tubes without any major issues. The resting voltages are with 300ohm cathode resistors (I haven't put the original 270 ohm back yet and this could give me a bit more output I know) Plate/Screen: 404/392 JJ 404/398 VA, Cathode: 25 JJ 26 VA, Plate-Cathode 379 JJ 378 VA Watts/ma: 30/80 JJ 31/82 VA (using Weber bias calc)
        I really need to look at the original amp again to get the readings complete but it's a 3 hour drive return so I can't grab it right now. I did just check component values to schem and grabbed Plate to Cathode 370 but Screen 342 so that would make the screens a lot higher on my amp hmmmm. The plate voltage on my amp is higher as well but I have a VVR that can drop the PI PA only. p.s. pretty sure it is grid leak bias as the cathode is grounded on the gain channel, there is a cap between the grid and input jack to keep DC off the jack

        "Do you have access to another OT you can temp wire in there?" Chuck H
        Sorry to ask a noob question but is it possible to wire the PI output from my amp into the PA grids of the other amp? Is it as simple as pulling the PI tube on one and bridging the AC signal and supplying a chassis earth between the two amps?

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