Easy to use schematic maker software?

[NateS]

I keep mulling plans to mount a web cam and a laser to one of those and programming the computer to play with the cat when I'm not at home.

But yeah, I decided to move mute and a few other functions to a board mounted right at the power tube sockets, and they're colossal after you've been looking at itty bitty SMT components for a while. FusionPCB seems cheaper than BatchPCB for most projects I've scoped, but the 5cm chunk size can get awkward when trying to work around octal sockets with typical spacing.

[exclamationmark]

I remember using KiCad for a bit, and it really started to get on my nerves. Not only is it incompatible with the vast amount of Eagle libraries, it made it a living hell to place and route a large amount of components. I don't remember the exact reason, but I think it had a lot to do with the component library system. I was routing a 4 or 6 layer FPGA board at the time, with a BOM of something like 70+ different components, so I decided to try kiCad. Maybe because I was so used to working with orcad/eagle the slight change in workflow really disrupted my ability to actually do anything. But yeah, KiCad is free and has some neat features that eagle doesn't offer. Not really my cup of tea, but still very usable (and popular).

[lowell]

rjb,
what pcb layout software do you use to import tinycad's netlist export to? i have pcbexpress but it will not accept .dsn files, only .sch files. Therefore it will not let me "link netlist to schematic". Thanks!

[Austin]

I never knew about Audacity but I installed it last night and started having fun with it right away.. What a great little program! I am still trying to figure out how to get started with ltspice, I like the idea of doing a simulation. Tiny Cad is my fav of the schematic makers so far because it is so easy to use. I was able to do what I wanted in five minutes after installing it.

[rjb]

rjb,
what pcb layout software do you use to import tinycad's netlist export to?

Sorry, I can't help you- I've only used tinycad for simple schematics.

Well, not quite true- I once tried to use the symbol editor to create a drilling template for a Pbass pickup bobbin, but the program is "metric centric" and doesn't provide enough resolution in the imperial system to accurately draw 4 holes on 3/8" (0.375") centers. (Sometimes 1/100 of an inch isn't close enough).
-rb

[lowell]

Dang. Sucks I tried expresspcb but their dang software expresssch (schematics) does not have an "export netlist" option. Stupid. It does kinda show you what needs to be connected if you link the schem and pcb, but what's the point if you can't export the net and have it all layout the pcb for you? Am I lazy? Seems everytime I wanna make some boards it takes days and days to get the layout right, and make the board. I guess the real hard part is a good layout. That's why I'd prefer the netlist export option.

[J M Fahey]

Dang. Sucks I tried expresspcb but their dang software expresssch (schematics) does not have an "export netlist" option. Stupid. It does kinda show you what needs to be connected if you link the schem and pcb, but what's the point if you can't export the net and have it all layout the pcb for you? Am I lazy? Seems everytime I wanna make some boards it takes days and days to get the layout right, and make the board. I guess the real hard part is a good layout. That's why I'd prefer the netlist export option.

Well, you get what you pay for
No, seriously; they will *never* let you export anything (not even allow "proper" PCB printing, although there is a way around that) because they want you to order *their* boards, simple as that.
And remember: it's entry level software.
The big advantage is that it's very easy to learn, in 1 hour anybody is laying out usable PCBs.
And instead of an autorouter, which is very complex, frustrating and usually does things you didn't want to; their practical solution of showing net by net which points should be connected and letting you do so, is not a bad option at all.
I use their schematic drawings for a lot for examples I post on the Net, because they can be saved as .BMP which I later convert to .gif or .png (paste in Irfanview, save as .gif)
Here is one example:

Now, for actual PCB drawing, I first roughly layout with paper and pencil , then draw the PCB "wasting space" , as in using twice the final space allowed, simply to ease track laying.
Because the *main* problems are layout and connectivity.
Autorouting *might* solve the second, but the first is on still you.
*There is* software which offers "autoplace" ... but it never places things where I want them !!!
So I first do a rough layout, then manually route allowing myself a lot of extra space and finally tighten things up, making the design as compact as possible.
Practice it, it works

PS: right click the drawing and open it in a new window to see it actual size.

[Dave H]

rjb,
what pcb layout software do you use to import tinycad's netlist export to? i have pcbexpress but it will not accept .dsn files, only .sch files. Therefore it will not let me "link netlist to schematic". Thanks!

I use Free pcb - FreePCB: freeware PCB layout software

Use TinyCAD's 'PADS-PCB' output file format for the netlist.

[lowell]

No way nice! Only issue is I took a look at the Free pcb site and it sounds SUPER complex just to install the dang thing. Sorry for complaining.

[loudthud]

My must have features:

What I look for besides basic drafting functions is netlist "rubberbanding". You load the netlist and the program draws straight lines between points that need to be connected. When you move a part, the rubberbands follow the part as you finalize the placement. When you actually connect the parts, the rubber bands disappear. If you disconnect the parts later, there is some process to recompile the netlist so you know what is left to be connected.

Another must have feature is how two layer boards are displayed on the screen. I use red for one layer and blue for the other. I like it when the colors are transparent so you can see purple where they overlay.

Which of these programs do and donot have these features?

[Dave H]

No way nice! Only issue is I took a look at the Free pcb site and it sounds SUPER complex just to install the dang thing. Sorry for complaining.

FreePCB works exactly as Loudthud's must have features.

They make it sound complicated to install but it is easy enough.

Download the installer from the downloads page below
http://www.freepcb.com/downloads/freepcb_1200_setup.exe
Install it then download the combined update from the downloads page below
http://www.freepcb.com/downloads/fre...ned_update.zip
Unzip the update and cut and paste the three .pdf files into the C:\Program Files\FreePCB\doc directory
Now cut (or copy) and paste all the other files in the unzipped archive into the C:\Program Files\FreePCB\bin directory
Click on the 'FreePCB' desktop icon (or a link to C:\Program Files\FreePCB\bin\FreePCB.exe) to run the program.

Now I've made it sound complicated but it isn't really.

[lowell]

Wow thanks Dave. You trimmed the fat. Thanks for that! I will give it a shot.

[Steve Conner]

Eagle has Loudthud's must-have features. I've been using the full version for years.

[NateS]

From gschem - If Mosfet Follies was subtitled, 'Letting the solid state demon into your amp', this one should be called 'Legion - for we are many' (and I expect it will likely generate similar results here on MEF).

[exclamationmark]

From gschem - If Mosfet Follies was subtitled, 'Letting the solid state demon into your amp', this one should be called 'Legion - for we are many' (and I expect it will likely generate similar results here on MEF).

If you think that's bad, my latest build contains (or will eventually contain) over 300 solid state relays! That's over 600 back to back mosfets Coincedentally, I posted a question about a MCU programmable bias supply I had floating around in my head on another forum and it appears quite similar to your design... I assume you have the output of the op-amps attached to some sort of mosfet for the required negative voltage swing, but is it feasible to simply tie the output of an inverting op amp directly the grid leak, assuming the op amp has sufficient voltage capability? (this is strictly for pre-amp tubes, so -15v should be plenty).