Tube Rectified Amps: Standby via Switch on Rectifier Heater - Good Idea?

[loudthud]

I'd much prefer a female voice saying, "High voltage enabled, hearing protection advised".

[NateS]

have the standby switch enable a five second puff of smoke when flipped.

That's what FQP3N80C is for.

[R.G.]

That's what FQP3N80C is for.

Yeah, but you'd need a rotating magazine of FQP3N80C's, wouldn't you?

I was hoping to only have to fill up the reservoir with smoke fluid every show or two.

In fact, I have designed a "Smoke Signals" pedal, whose only function is that it emits smoke for a few seconds whenever it's engaged. I just can't get the boss to put it into production.

[Tage]

Yeah I understand including them out of convention. I have done it when asked to, but i use the method described by merlin of having a large series resistance that is then bypassed by the standby switch, and that works fine for me. Although my own amps don't have standby switches, for a mute i use a tuner or turn my guitar volume down.

[Enzo]

In fact, I have designed a "Smoke Signals" pedal, whose only function is that it emits smoke for a few seconds whenever it's engaged. I just can't get the boss to put it into production.

Well, I have seen my share of cheap American DJ brand smoke machines, which do just that.

I recall my Lionel train set from about 1951 or so, the steam engine made smoke. You dropped these little white pills down the smoke stack, and there was a small heating element in there. After a little warm up, white smoke whisped out of the stack. And a small diaphragm worked by the drive mechanism pulsed air through it so the smoke came out in puffs.

[loudthud]

I got my first electric shock from a Lionel train set. Been looking for an old Lionel transformer to use as a low voltage variac.

[Enzo]

Aha! I used to use my Lionel power pack in my shop when fooling around with my electronics. I remember understanding all the track wiring and stuff as a kid.

[loudthud]

I had a problem with the little pins that joined the sections of track together. They would get loose and fall out. My Dad soldered them into the track sections. First time I saw a soldering iron.

[Enzo]

Oh yeah, I remember those now. They were supposed to sorta spring fit into the end of the rail. I remember us trying to squeeze the rail a bit, and sometimes putting a bit of bend into the pin helped.

And the "CTC Lockon" that clipped to the track and a couple Fahnestock clips for the tansformer wires.

I don't know that we soldered much on the Lionel, but i did use my dads i don;t know what, 40 watts maybe, iron to try and solder electronics. Worked poorly. Big around as a 12AX7 or more with a four sides pyramid tip. Probly better for plumbing.

My transformer was basic, a little cube with two levers on the top. I always envied the guys with the big side lever ones like the one on this page.

LIONEL ELECTRIC TOY TRAIN TRANSFORMER IDENTIFICATION GUIDE

[NateS]

Yeah, but you'd need a rotating magazine of FQP3N80C's, wouldn't you?

I was hoping to only have to fill up the reservoir with smoke fluid every show or two.

In fact, I have designed a "Smoke Signals" pedal, whose only function is that it emits smoke for a few seconds whenever it's engaged. I just can't get the boss to put it into production.

Pedal is the wrong place for this. Instead:
- put fog machine behind amp
- put some red and blue lighting behind amp
- use the pedal to start a timer, like at the beginning of guitar solo
- amp begins smoking
- once enough fog has been generated, amp begins 'arcing' blue flashes
- at creschendo, amp is just roiling smoke, blue 'arc' flashes mix with red 'fire' flashes, then you switch over to your 'backup' amp.

Next show, reload the gag. Now THAT is a noble cause.
-

[catnine]

I always felt the standby switch was the allow the heaters on all the tubes to warm up so you weren't sending current into cold tubes . Some rect tubes warm up slowly and others like the new sovtek 5Y3 don't. I put one in my champ homebrew that breaks the pin 8 of the rect to the reservoir cap and the same on a push /pull amp I built . Between the standby and pin 8 of the 5Y3 I place a small fuse . I don't use it much but since the chassis had a hole maked standby I used it. I just leave it on most of the time. My other build has the new sovtek 5Y3 so it warms up fast so on that amp I use it . I can't say it really makes any difference at all.

I have seen them wired to break the center tap to ground off the PT for the 5 volt tap but never liked that idea . I have mostly seen them after pin 8 with two of the 5 electrolytic caps or reservoir caps so the switch was between the reservoir caps and the first filter cap dropping resister or coil . Some even have a small cap to ground on one side of the switch the hot side I think I guess this prevents pop of keep the cap charged who knows. Weber does this pin 8 rect to the switch on their 5E3 kit yet the side of the switch that feeds the filter caps the junction of the B+ he also has a second lead off the same terminal wired to the OT primary center tap used as a junction to feed the OT primary center tap when that is usually wired right at the same point as the B+ on the board on fender amps anyway.

I forgot , I can't recall which heats up faster an in-direct heater 5Y3 or a direct heated 5Y3 all I recall is that Direct heater 5Y3's have a lower voltage and indirect heater 5Y3 like the new sovtek has a higher voltage output I have read that DH 5Y3's heat up faster , I get confused because I don't keep track of this stuff.

[pdf64]

Thanks for all the responses everyone.
The method I've ended up using was to switch the supply to the 6L6 screen grids. That provides instant on/off muting whilst eliminating switch on surge currents, and also turning 6L6s off.
As the VB+ to the rest of the amp is maintained, if phase splitter is overdriven hard enough, some faint blips of signal can get through, but that hasn't been a problem so far.
I guess I could have got rid of that by switching the B+ supply to the rest of the downstream circuits, or by using a dual throw switch to flip the screen grids down to the bias supply in standby, but that would have been harder to do, and I didn't have a suitable dual throw switch handy.
Pete

[catnine]

Someone correct me on this . I looked up the difference between direct and indirect heated rect tubes and found that dirrect heated are like the old 5Y3 . The GZ-34 is direct heated. I read the indirect heated warm up faster than indirect I always thought it was the opposite.

I asked once on this forum because I was concerned about current rush from a NOS 5Y3 and using a 47 UF reservoir cap and Bruce from Mission amps told me just to place a 47 ohm resister between the pin 8 of the rect tube and the B+ on the eyelet board , this was for a SF cahmp home brew I built. he said the resister would limit the inrush so as not to stress the 5Y3 while charging the caps . So far I have not had any issues with the 5Y3 and even if I use the standby switch I hear no pop and did this in the dark to see if there was any arching in the 5Y3 but I could see none.

[JoeM]

Someone correct me on this . I looked up the difference between direct and indirect heated rect tubes and found that dirrect heated are like the old 5Y3 . The GZ-34 is direct heated. I read the indirect heated warm up faster than indirect I always thought it was the opposite....

Did you mean to state the GZ-34 is indirectly heated? It is indirectly heated and has a slower warmup than direct like a 5U4 for example. So yes, you were correct in your original thinking.

[catnine]

Yes JoeM I meant to say the GZ -34 was indirect . That's ths odd part that baffles me. Since SF champs use a 5Y3 direct heated and they come on faster so basically a NOS 5Y3 as soon as it's switched on provides full voltage so then I guess it charges the filter caps mainly the reservoir cap well before the other tubes heat up and then I guess I would have to conclude that is why champs don't use a standby switch . It's sort of reverse thinking that needs to be applied . So when you have a indirect heated rect tube like the new sovtek 5Y3 a standby switch would be more useful then perhaps not I just don't know just as i don't understand why the newer sovtek 5Y3 puts out more voltage than a NOS 5Y3 . I use the NOS in my champ homebrew but I use the Sovtek 5y3 in my push/pull 6V6 and I get 10 volts more but that amp handles it fine. That amp sounds better with a stiffer rect tube. Yet if it comes on slower what does the use of a standby switch really help . I look at it odd , I look at it since the rect tube takes longer to come to full voltage then if I use the standby switch to heat up all the tubes heaters then flip it to play then it charges the filter caps then perhaps none of this makes any difference at all . I guess I felt that since it takes longer to warm up and produce full voltage then it's better to have the other tubes warm and then the rect tube being indirect heated the rect tube would not have to work so hard to charge the filter caps. I've used the standbys on both amps with both types of 5Y3's and so far never had an issue . Most of the time I don't use the standby on the champ since they never had one so it all depends I just put one in since the chassis I used had a spot of one. In reality I doubt if I have 100 hours on either of the amps so I guess time will tell . Can't play them here that much and I don't gig anymore so I just pull out an acoustic most of the time. Some sites/ sellers say the new sovtek 5Y3 is fine and others say it's crap and the only reason I have seen that claims it's crap is because it provide a bit more voltage. Not that they have blown . Hoffman amps sells them and Torres sells them . I can't say perhaps all of this is hype and myth.