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I have a question on a build I did a while back

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  • I have a question on a build I did a while back

    What I have is a Fender build that began as a 5E3 and it's in a 1971 music master amp chassis so all I had to work with were one vol and one tone pot and 2 inputs so I just used one triode of the preamp 12AY7 . I didn't like the sound to much gain so what I did was wire the vol and tone pots just like a 6G2 fender princeton which brough me less gain and the tone and vol pots did not interreact like they do on the 5E3 . The rest of the amp including the phase inverter and power section and no NFB is the same as the 5E3 all I did change is I removed the cathode bias and installed an adjustable fixed bias .

    The tubes are V1 12AY7 . V2 12AX7 V3 & V4 JJ 6V6s and a 5Y3 rect since that was what the 5E3 used as well as the 6G2 . some may know the 6G2 is basically a 5E3 with a different tone stack and fixed bias and has a NFB loop and has the added tremlo which I didn't add.

    So here is what is a bit confusing to me. The PT is a bit more than the stock 6G2 would normally use and a bit less than the 5E3 would use . I got it from Allen Amps and it is a beefed up replacement for a champ or all princetons I also used an Allen amp OT which is a beefed up model for a princeton all models that are push/pull . The PT fits right in the PT cutout for the SF champ and MM fender bass amp since they share the same chassis . It is rated at 325-0-325 HT @ 180mA and after the 5Y3 I have a 30 uf reservoir cap and a 5000 ohm dropper then a 16 uf cap and a 22K dropper then another 16uf cap . With those values in mind I have a 410 volt plate . With a bit smaller PT like the 6G2 has a 325-0-325 ht @ 70mA yet it has a 30 uf reservoir then a 1000 ohm dropper another 30uf cap then a 10k dropper and about 320 volt plate.

    Ok here is the weird part . I look at the AA964 princeton same PT as the SF champ and 6G2 princeton yet it uses a GZ-34 rect tube has 420 volts plates and one more filter stage 20 uf then a 1K dropper another 20 uf cap then 18K dropper another 20uf cap and a 18k dropper . Now even though the AA964 princeton has the extra filter stage both the build I made and the 6G2 and the AA964 all have the plate run right from the pin 8 of the rect tube to the OT center tap , the first dropping resister is after the reservoir cap before the 6V6 screen all set up the same way so how can my build have almost the same plate using a 5Y3 as the AA964 have using a GZ-34 rect ? Is it because mt PT has a 180 mA instead of a 70 mA secondary . They all have the same output tubes and all use two 12A--7's on my build I just use one triode of the 12AY7 but that does not draw that much more if I used both triodes . Could it also have something to do with the Allen amps OT I used ? With both his PT and OT I got they can run a pair of 6V6's a 5Y3 and easy two 12AX7's or a pair of 6L6GC with a GZ-34 and easy two 12AX7's . The OT is really just a higher watt OT and a larger sized OT than a stock push/pull princeton and the PT is an inch taller with higher mA rating on the HT secondaries.

  • #2
    Sorry but after reading your post I am more confused than Adam on Mother's day.
    "Do not overthink things" is a phrase quite popular around here, and for good reason, but I guess in this case we would need to write it 10 times in a row.
    Short answer: pick 1 of the 10 options, flip coins if need be, and "just build it"·
    Last edited by J M Fahey; 11-26-2012, 05:29 AM.
    Juan Manuel Fahey

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    • #3
      A few thoughts which may or may not be be relevant...

      - The voltage numbers on the fender schematics aren't always consistent or correct. They also depend somewhat on the value of the mains and the actual tubes in the amp during the measurement. A variation of 10% or so isn't unusual.

      - Maybe somebody else here knows more, but 5 or 10 years ago I saw a number of 5Y3 tubes that seemed to be simply re-labeled GZ34s. The ones I saw were all are Sovtek/GT/Fender label 5Y3s, but they dropped the same voltage as GZ34s and caused problems in certain amps. I saw a rash of fried silverface champs with these tubes in them. (if three counts as a rash?)

      - Most any transformer will put out higher than its rated voltage if you use it at less than its rated current -- mainly because the secondary wire has some resistance.
      Last edited by woodyc; 11-26-2012, 09:46 AM.

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      • #4
        Ok . my main point in all of this and to simplify it more. I do realize that the fender schematics do not always show the actual voltages , some like the 5E3 don't show voltages at all . I see the schematics on the internet and the book I have by Gerald Weber Desktop reference to hip vintage guitar amps .

        Yet some are pretty close . So my main question is since the AA964 princeton and the SF Champ use the same PT . Since the Champ only uses one 6V6 and one 12ax7 off the PT HT secondaries and all the push/pull Princetons use the same PT as the SF champ so the rated PT for those amps is 325-0-325 @70 mA so the champ at the same mA rating is going to draw less current than a AA964 . I have two builds the SF Champ home brew has a weber PT that has 330-0-330 @100mA , The Allen Amps pT I have is 325-0-325 @180 mA and uses the same set of tubes as a AA964 and since the tubes combined draw a certain amount of current then it stands to reason that since currect draw drops voltage that a PT with a higher rated mA that can handle more draw is not going to drop the voltage as much , at least that's the way I look at it. So I agree with woodyc.

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