How do you attach wire and components to turrets?

[daz]

I'm redoing my amp with a new turret board and componenets, tube sockets, wire, pretty much everything but trannys and switches/jacks/pots. Every build so far i've done the same way....wires from the board to pots or tube sockets i solder to the bottom of the turret in the hole. Then where i attach the components up top i bend the ends 90 degrees and just solder them in the holes. It's the neatest look i could figure out, but i don't like certain things about it. How do you guys do it and what are your preferred methods? I have thought of doing the components like some and wrapping the leads around the turret. But the problem there is if i ever change a component it will be a pain, and even worse if there are several components attached to that turret. The wire i worry about coming out if i reflow solder to replace something and i can never see how it's doing....did it come part way out when i reflowed a turret? I worry about that. I have thought of stripping the end long enough to go thru to the top and then another 1/4" or so, then cutting all but 2 or 3 strands to just maybe 1/8" and that way the wire could be soldered in as normal but those 2 or 3 strands go thru then top and wrap around the turret and soldered on so as to keep the rest of the wire from ever falling out. Just a thought. Anyways, i'd like to hear YOUR thoughts on the subject before i start wiring up the new board.

[Chuck H]

I've NEVER built on turrets. It seems like a good way to go but I have a giant sack of eyelets I'm still using I can speak about eyelets! That is, I absolutely DO rely on the conductivity of solder at times. When making changes I cannot know that replaced, as well as existing leads are all in contact with an eyelet. So, in this regard, I am relying on the solder for contact and conductivity. Other than a few times when I've been personally responsible for a questionable solder joint (and re-flowing fixed any issues) I haven't had a problem. Standard practice is to wrap all connections such that the component is tight enough to contact the eyelet or turret on it's own, sans solder. But in practice this is very hard to perpetuate when tweaking. One problem that comes to mind is that a person might want to raise a component off the board a little. That leaves a little slack in the lead if the joint is ever re melted. I'm pretty good about sucking and re-fluxing, etc. But I'm sure there are a few solder joints in my amps that are absolutely relying on the solder. Which is a technical no no. After years of doing this, I'm not worried about it.

[jazbo8]

Learn it and memorize it >> Basic Soldering Lesson 2 - "Soldering To PCB Terminals" - YouTube

There are more in the video series, watch them all if you have the time...

Jaz

[daz]

Geez Chuck. Sounds to me like you are a closet turret freak ! Why use those eyelets when everything you said points to turrets as your ideal method? Do what i do....go to antique audio and get thier loaded turret board. It's dirt cheap and has 60 turrets already lining the two long edges, then you get a few 10 packs to fill in where you need. $10 for the board an $1.50 a pack of 10 turrets. The holes are even already punched ! Dirt cheap and a few minutes to oput the few turrets you ned in aside from those already there and it's dirt cheap and theres no work involved. Can't beat it !!! Toss those old eyelets.

Heres the one i just got in the mail today and quickly popped the 17 extra turrets in i need....

[daz]

Learn it and memorize it >> Basic Soldering Lesson 2 - "Soldering To PCB Terminals" - YouTube

There are more in the video series, watch them all if you have the time...

Jaz

Thanks for that. Interesting to watch. But what i was really looking for are the different ways you all do it in hopes of seeing one mthod i like enough to go that route. There is no one right way, there are many, which i think is obvious considering there are many different ways that it's done by many very talented people here and at other forums. I just want to hear the different ways you all do it.

[Chuck H]

Bah! I build boards to match my designed layouts. I wouldn't even consider using a "universal" board at this point. And I've spent SOOO much time using eyelets that I don't mind roughing it. Though I admit to being intrigued by turrets (especially when I need to put five or six big leads in a single eyelet ). I admit that wiring up power amps and power supplies on eyelests can be a real PITA at times. But I've got all this "stuff" that I already bought in bulk when I THOUGHT I knew what I wanted

[daz]

Ok, I can see you're not gonna budge on this. But I love those universal boards. You can configure them to your own design as i did. But, i see you just don't wanna lose the money you spent on those eyelets all those years ago. Anyways, onward.....anyone have suggestions for a unique and good way to wire up turrets?

Oh, while i'm here, I always have a piece of stripped solid core wire running the length of the board as a ground buss, usually i think about 22 gauge i think. Do you think using house wire (that huge copper wire used for house wiring) for that is too big? I imagine it's probably what....14 gauge? I'd lie something strong enough not to bend easy while wiring things to it, but i'm wondering if theres a reason wire that big wouldn't be a good idea.

[Enzo]

Considering that currents in a tube amp are a few milliamps, what advantage does a huge hunk of wire provide? Heaters use heavier current, but are not usually wired to ground busses. Reasons not to use it are cost. I realize if you are stripping scrap wire there is no cost, but if you were Fender, buying wire by the mile, the difference in cost adds up. Another reason is that huge wire is unwieldy, you cant just kink it into shape. If you want to stick it in a hole, the hole may not be large enough, or the fat wire may fill the hole, leaving no room for other wire. If you don;t care about that stuff, then go ahead and use it, copper is copper.

I'm with Chuck, I'd rather work with eyelets. Unwrapping wire leads from a turret, especially when several parts share a turret, is a pain in the ass to me.

[exclamationmark]

Theoretically, a thicker gauge piece of wire used for a ground bus should mean lower noise, as the voltages induced by the currents flowing through the ground bus should be lower. In real life, there probably isn't a measurable difference (unless you do something silly like run the cathodes of your power tubes through it). Before I learned how to etch my own PCB's, I would just strip some solid core mains wiring and use that for a ground bus- it still seems to perform fairly well with high gain amplifiers (compared to strict star grounding, I haven't noticed any difference).

[daz]

Theoretically, a thicker gauge piece of wire used for a ground bus should mean lower noise, as the voltages induced by the currents flowing through the ground bus should be lower. In real life, there probably isn't a measurable difference (unless you do something silly like run the cathodes of your power tubes through it). Before I learned how to etch my own PCB's, I would just strip some solid core mains wiring and use that for a ground bus- it still seems to perform fairly well with high gain amplifiers (compared to strict star grounding, I haven't noticed any difference).

Ok, so no reason not to use it then. thanks. Enzo....the reason has nothing to do with the electronic aspect....just that i want something that won't bend so easily. I could get some wire with smaller gauge and be ok, it's just that i have some of this laying around. But if i can find something smaller and still strong i'll use it.

[R.G.]

Back when tin-lead solder roamed the earth, the earliest circuit builders came up with a scheme for attaching components to a board that has affected our history. They pounded nails into a real, no-fooling wooden plank, then wrapped wires and component leads to them and soldered.

Sometimes the wooden plank was an actual kitchen breadboard... oh... that's where that came from! You could put parts wherever you wanted. It's still a useful technique to remember for quick-and-dirty setups. I used it as recently as last year, subbing in foam plastic trim from Home Depot and sheet metal screws to fix leads for a circuit board I screwed down to the foam board.

Turrets were a later and more refined version. Turrets were staked wherever needed, then part leads and wires were soldered to them.

Turret manufacture was popular with the military and instrument makers because it was quick, and could be quite durable. A couple of the things I've read on turrets said that the proper way was to wind something between 5/8 and 2 turns of lead or wire onto the turret, then solder. The more-than-half-a-turn of wire held the wire in place without relying on the solder as a glue, which was universally taken as a no-no back in that day. The more reliable the connection had to be (I intuit from the titles of the papers) the more turns of wire used over half to hold them in place.

The old advice is that the circuit should be mechanically stable and not fall apart even with zero solder on it.

Clearly we don't make equipment for long-range-bombers this way any more, but they really used to worry about vibration shaking joints loose if the solder was all there was to hold it. Component body sympathetic resonances could embrittle, fatigue, then break solder joints.

But that can't happen any more, can it?

[Enzo]

Nah, now we have the lead free solder which gets brittle and shatters all by itself, no vibration required.

[soundmasterg]

Nah, now we have the lead free solder which gets brittle and shatters all by itself, no vibration required.

I can't stand that crappy solder! I have to use it at work and even with the proper clean tools and solder and the correct temps, the stuff just doesn't flow...until all of a sudden it flows and puts WAY too much on the joint. We all know lead is bad for you but how much really leaches from a circuit board into water if it is submerged? I think it was sold as an environmental thing but is really just an economic thing to get people to buy more stuff. A place I used to work at used to offer a 50 year warranty on their organs...after being forced to change to non-lead solder to comply with the ROHS requirements, they changed their warranty to 10 years and now they are at 5 years because they don't think their products will last much longer than that now without problems due to the use of the non-lead solder.

Greg

[teemuk]

I can't stand that crappy solder!

First world problems man.



...Which naturally brings us to 3rd world problems:







All I can say is, less lead there and I'm all happy with a little discomfort.

[exclamationmark]

Ironically, lead free solder probably causes more health problems due to stronger fluxes. I guess it depends on the brand, but the smell is definitely more irritating to me than the standard kester leaded solder I use. But I do think it's a good direction to be moving in - I don't particularly like idea of having a somewhat deadly metal deposited on my hands everytime I solder something. I don't find lead free solder particularly hard to work with though - The main annoyances are the lack of shininess to differentiate good solder joints from bad, and the extremely poor wetting once the flux has all evaporated away (the same thing happens with leaded solder though...). IIRC Sn-Ag-Cu lead free solder actually has better thermal cycling and mechanical shock properties than Sn-Pb under some circumstances. I personally don't use it for hand soldering since the joints are somewhat hard to check - I use lead free solder paste all the time on SMT boards though!