Insulating the reverb pan?

[Leo_Gnardo]

Chuck that's a long tank, right? On occasion I've had luck improving this sort of situation by swapping in a short tank. Worth a try. Recently had to do this in a Jim Kelley amp, one of the old ones not current issue. Started behaving itself right away with the shorty tank.

and Ready Teddy, I've seen the solid state reverb blocks installed in some modern amps. They can sound acceptable but that's up to each listener. Also the micro versions have been used in pedals. There's a tradeoff, a bit of a grainy sound but anyone who's tried a Holy Grail pedal has encountered that. All by itself, it can sound gravelly. When the whole band's rockin' that complaint fades away.

[Chuck H]

IMHO the Belton tanks have consistently sounded poor to my ears. They all seem to have this sort of non specific wash of white noise instead of a representation of the input signal. But it's been a long time since I auditioned tanks. The tank I just replaced was a Belton. The MOD sounds much better.

I remember the shorty tanks sounding just fine. But that was back in the USA Accutronics days so things could have changed. I was having such poor luck finding a good reverb tone that I just shot for the biggest, lushest tank I could find... It's also the most microphinic. Go figure.

I've actually heard the digital units employed very well with no encoding hash or graininess. But that was in a circuit designed to run the Belton module. Not one of the tank replacement units that plug into a vintage circuit. I may yet try one of those since the current tank, padding and bag take up significant acoustic space in the cab. I want to pull the tank to see if it actually make a tonal difference to the cabinet itself.

[Leo_Gnardo]

I remember the shorty tanks sounding just fine. But that was back in the USA Accutronics days so things could have changed. I was having such poor luck finding a good reverb tone that I just shot for the biggest, lushest tank I could find... It's also the most microphinic. Go figure.

Before you complicate things with a solid state replacement, try a MOD shorty tank. "Biggest, lushest" 3 spring long tanks I've found to be trouble in combo amps. Maybe OK in a studio reverb like the Peavey rack mount or Klark-Teknik, if you're trying to sweeten up orchestra music. Although there's a MOD 2-spring shorty listed, I've always found it's out of stock. The 3-spring shorty has occasionally turned out to be a good problem-solver.

[bob p]

My limited experience with digital reverbs is that they don't handle large signals very well. Has that problem ever been fixed?

[Leo_Gnardo]

My limited experience with digital reverbs is that they don't handle large signals very well.

For an item like Belton's solid state reverb "bricks" you would have to compress/limit the signal on the way in. (sigh)... it justs gets more & more complicated. You'd think they would build in a simple limiter. Maybe you could use a pair of back to back zeners to avoid signal level smackin' up against the rails.

Commercial digital reverbs & other effects - long ago Lexicon built limiters into their products but didn't announce it to the world. They simply "sounded better" and grabbed market share through audible quality. I wouldn't doubt that practically every brand has now applied this technique. It's a smart thing to do.

Thanks again Chuck & bob p for your "likes." I'd deliver a lot more "likes" myself but every time I try it just sends me back to the top of the page. It worked once but I can't figure out how.

[bob p]

I use firefox. I had problems with likes not working when I had script blocking enabled by NoScript. I've since enabled Java on this site and I have no problems.

[Tom Phillips]

...Maybe you could use a pair of back to back zeners to avoid signal level smackin' up against the rails...

That would produce it's own type of nasty sound since high level drive signals would be clipped hard at the zener voltage. You would either need a good performing soft limiter or figure out the signal level where the problem starts and set up your gain structure to keep the drive to the reverb module blow that level. Problem is that could compromise the reverb sound when you are not driving hard.

[Leo_Gnardo]

That would produce it's own type of nasty sound since high level drive signals would be clipped hard at the zener voltage. You would either need a good performing soft limiter or figure out the signal level where the problem starts and set up your gain structure to keep the drive to the reverb module blow that level. Problem is that could compromise the reverb sound when you are not driving hard.

Sharp clip with that cheap and nasty zener "limiter", yes I know. But it may be audibly better than a "digital overdrive". And yes, a more sophisticated limiter would be ideal. As Lexicon has been doing since Jimmy Carter was prez. I have a friend who was working there late 70's and he let me in on the secret. Of course anyone who had a schematic and knew how to read it could see that too back then. I didn't have a schemo but I heard the lack of digital dirt. So let's have a look at a Lexicon schemo and borrow their circuit. Long past sunset on any patent from that era - don't worry about the patent police whisking you away in the paddy wagon.

[Leo_Gnardo]

I use firefox. I had problems with likes not working when I had script blocking enabled by NoScript. I've since enabled Java on this site and I have no problems.

I must have switched off the script blocker one fine day. When I do that navigating TAG slows down to 1/1000 of a snail's pace. Java - maybe it's OK for others but for my computer it's a spaniard in the works. I'll take my Java in a cup.

BTW I'm diggin' the nixie tube, bob p. The countdown sorta wobbles & a bit irregular, just like the real thing. But that may be an artifact of my Flintstone Age computer.

[bob p]

Nixie irregularity: I deliberately introduced some visual bugs into the frames when I created the animated gif. I wanted to make the animation bigger, and to make the numbers occasionally overshoot and bounce between values, but the board limits file size. I had to shrink the size of the images to make the total file size small enough to be accepted by the board.

One unplanned bug that found it's way into the animation is that the "9" frame is narrower than the rest. that must have occurred during down-sizing to make the avatar. I never noticed that before today.

[bob p]

Diodes: I'm with Tom. What you described previously sounds just like a stompbox OD design that uses diode clipping.

At any rate, I can't stand SS reverb units in guitar amps. You have to control signal amplitude to avoid ugly distortion, and large signals into tubes is exactly what a gainy tube amp is about. Controlling signal size to make a digital reverb work requires that you design the amp around the reverb box, rather than designing hte amp for tone.

IMO using a digital unit in a guitar amp is just wrong. I prefer sending a large signal into spring, and then wound coil. That physical embodiment provides it's own damping and limiting and sounds a whole lot better to me.

[Leo_Gnardo]

Diodes: I'm with Tom. What you described previously sounds just like a stompbox OD design that uses diode clipping.

IMO using a digital unit in a guitar amp is just wrong. I prefer sending a large signal into spring, and then wound coil. That physical embodiment provides it's own damping and limiting and sounds a whole lot better to me.

Think 2 zeners in series, facing opposite directions. Across the signal line to ground. OK it's still a clipper but will admit a way bigger signal (programmed by the Zener voltages) than the typical fuzzbox cheapo diode pair in opposing parallel across the signal line. I'm not saying it makes a terrific clipper, just trying to keep signal from trying to exceed either the supply voltage rails or digital zero, whichever comes first. No more than quick n cheap. & Ok, dirty too.

I've certainly used digital reverbs, in guitar systems (Bradshaw switchers). Good ones like Lexicon, Roland, Yamaha, and not the cheap end of the scale. When set up properly, no complaint about audio quality. OTOH the built in digital FX reverbs & Belton bricks - kinda OK but nothing to write home about. Cheap = you get what you pay for.

There's still something that sounds right about the old fashioned spring system as long as the tank isn't a stinker.

Not trying to convince you about some digital "superiority", just relaying a different experience. Can't say I've been impressed with built-in digital FX.

Nixie irregularity makes it look that much more real. Those things jittered around just like your GIF. Now let's see somebody put Nixies in an amp..... nooooooo...