where to cut gain?

[daz]

You cannot say it any better. Every circuit you put in between change the sound. Even using higher value resistors for divider sounds different from lower value because of the 100pF input capacitance of the next stage.

It is a black art. You cannot use theory to do tuning. Believe me, I can theorize and calculate response until the cows come home, but that really does not help. In distortion, all the harmonics interact and create new side bands, too many to theorize. That's the reason I am quite disappointed lately because the need to test the sound in real life to fine tune. I got my amp very good testing in my own room, but if that's doesn't mean anything, then it's getting hard for me. That's the reason I am entertaining getting into audiophile power amp as it should be easier......my own room!!!

Thats been exactly my biggest problem. I can't play it at volume and even when i can it's in small rooms, usually pretty bright ones at that. Makes tuning for real world situations really hard. It's the very reason my amp sounded harsh at louder volumes, because i mostly tune it at lower volumes out of necessity. And i agree, it is a black art that relies mainly on your ear which is why a guy like me with so little knowledge of electronic theory can make a pretty darn good sounding amp. That and an insane amount of curiosity, patience, and hope.

[Dave H]

On a side note, one of the things that i don't like about my gain structure is the gain pot itself. It's one of the reasons i wanted less gain. What i'm getting at is the treble bleed cap. As you know, a bleed cap on a pot causes more gain to pass, albeit only in the cap's range. But never the less there is a negative side effect of that.....you have to turn the pot a lot further down to get the gain to where you want, and that causes it to never clean up real well. But w/o the cap the tone goes too dark and loses clarity and focus. .

Have you tried putting a resistor in series with the bleed cap (as is sometimes done with guitar vol pots) to limit its effect at lower MV settings? Your MV is 1M isn't it? Try a lower value, 500k or even 250k. A lower value will have less treble loss when turned down and may not need a bleed cap.

[daz]

Have you tried putting a resistor in series with the bleed cap (as is sometimes done with guitar vol pots) to limit its effect at lower MV settings? Your MV is 1M isn't it? Try a lower value, 500k or even 250k. A lower value will have less treble loss when turned down and may not need a bleed cap.

Yes. I had it like that for a while several times and tried a low value pot in the past. Now that you mention it tho i may revisit the series R. I think the reason i removed it was I missed the clarity or something, but maybe a smaller value. Ill mess with it, thanks.

[Alan0354]

Thats been exactly my biggest problem. I can't play it at volume and even when i can it's in small rooms, usually pretty bright ones at that. Makes tuning for real world situations really hard. It's the very reason my amp sounded harsh at louder volumes, because i mostly tune it at lower volumes out of necessity. And i agree, it is a black art that relies mainly on your ear which is why a guy like me with so little knowledge of electronic theory can make a pretty darn good sounding amp. That and an insane amount of curiosity, patience, and hope.

The volume and with the band part is the hardest part. Unless you have a group of friends that like to tinker with amps, nobody has the patience to stop, wait for you to think, do something and try again!!! On top, I way pass the age of in the band, It's been so long I don't know anyone really play anymore. And then have a wife and it's too disturbing to jam in the house....then have to haul the amp out just to try.

And lastly, I am sure everyone tinker with amps would like to sell it. Be honest, people might not say it out loud, but don't tell me they never think about it. So might as well put it out front. Getting the sound I like is easy, it's the research of what other amps sound and what people like that is hard to achieve.

[daz]

The volume and with the band part is the hardest part. Unless you have a group of friends that like to tinker with amps, nobody has the patience to stop, wait for you to think, do something and try again!!! On top, I way pass the age of in the band, It's been so long I don't know anyone really play anymore. And then have a wife and it's too disturbing to jam in the house....then have to haul the amp out just to try.

And lastly, I am sure everyone tinker with amps would like to sell it. Be honest, people might not say it out loud, but don't tell me they never think about it. So might as well put it out front. Getting the sound I like is easy, it's the research of what other amps sound and what people like that is hard to achieve.

On occasion my living situation allows me to crack up to about the volume of a very small bar gig. And when i can do that i throw a bunch of tunes in a player and turn up the music and jam along with it to see how the amp cuts thru the mix. Thats the best i can do in determining how the amp works in a real world situation. And while not perfect by any means, it really does work well to eliminate tweaks that cause the amp not to cut right. And like you said, pretty tough even if you are gigging to get much done because you can test one tweak for every gig. That could take a lifetime ! As to selling it....i've thought about that, but there are so many reasons i can think of that wouldn't work, and one of them is the cost to build just a simple single channel head is about $500-800. In order to make it profitable and not be working for minimum wage you'd have to sell them for as much as the big names do, and who's going to buy a no name amp with no resale value at a premium price? Then u have all the leagal considerations of being in business and before you know it your price needs to be higher than most name amps just to break even. In Ca you end up giving the govt about 40% of your profit ! Might be easier to become a famous rock star.

[Alan0354]

On occasion my living situation allows me to crack up to about the volume of a very small bar gig. And when i can do that i throw a bunch of tunes in a player and turn up the music and jam along with it to see how the amp cuts thru the mix. Thats the best i can do in determining how the amp works in a real world situation. And while not perfect by any means, it really does work well to eliminate tweaks that cause the amp not to cut right. And like you said, pretty tough even if you are gigging to get much done because you can test one tweak for every gig. That could take a lifetime ! As to selling it....i've thought about that, but there are so many reasons i can think of that wouldn't work, and one of them is the cost to build just a simple single channel head is about $500-800. In order to make it profitable and not be working for minimum wage you'd have to sell them for as much as the big names do, and who's going to buy a no name amp with no resale value at a premium price? Then u have all the leagal considerations of being in business and before you know it your price needs to be higher than most name amps just to break even. In Ca you end up giving the govt about 40% of your profit ! Might be easier to become a famous rock star.

Well, I meant at least have in mind selling it, not necessary doing it. I already retired and I really don't need that, that's hard work. But still, I would like to open the door slightly.