What makes a good tube amp a good tube amp and bad tube amp a bad one?

[eschertron]

On this forum, [snip] We particularly excel at turning Bad Tube Amps into Good Tube Amps.

Justin

Hey! Speak for yourself!! I particularly excel at wanting to turn Bad Tube Amps into Good Tube Amps.

+1 on the reliability criterion

[Chuck H]

A guitarist should choose an amp that helps him express emotion...

Agree! What a player is looking for would be the compression at different drive levels, how the EQ balance is affected under these conditions, The very specific envelope that tube amps possess (can be dynamic on initial attack and otherwise compressed on longer passages) and how those qualities balance with personal style. Contrary to toobnoob's observation, as a designer I have been able to manipulate these qualities. No cloning happens at my bench. BUT, I can only design to what I or someone I consult opines as desirable. There are a lot of differences in style and preference. Any decent tube amp probably executes the above properties within a sort of min/max. Extremes in performance characteristics usually result in weirdness. So most tube amps that ever reach market are useful in some way. The nuances and choice are up to the player.

not one that is good at explaining the tax code.

I was only pointing out that supporting our domestic economy is a VERY good idea right now. I do think there would be acceptable options. The only exception being that that you may not be able to buy a domestic amp for such a low price that you couldn't buy the individual parts for the cost of the assembled product! There's where I'd like to see the import tax code explained!

[Mick Bailey]

It sounds great!

Which is the point I'm making - you sound great through that amp! The player makes the difference. I have a little Peavey Studio 110 SS 'house' amp that nearly everyone who comes here plays through. It's amazing how good or bad it can sound. It's the best amp there is and the worst.

It reminds me of some car racing classes where every car is identical (I think Formula Ford used to be like this). Then it's the skill of the driver that makes it a winner, not how much has been spent on the development, exotic materials or whatever.

An interesting concept album; 12 world-class guitarists recording a track through your VJ. No other effects, just the necessary studio processes to get it recorded. The only thing they can change is the amp's controls. They can pick the tune/song. I'm thinking it would sound like 12 different amps.

[Alf]

I'm making - you sound great through that amp!

+1

Lots of people spend an awful lot of time trying to make their ultimate amp or pedal and tend to pay far less attention to the main thing.
Practice as much as you can on mastering your instrument and on knowing your amplifier. and whole chain of effects and amp.

Just my 2 cents

[R.G.]

On a philosophical note, I think it is logically provable that either no one knows any single principle for what makes a good amp good, or that there is no one path to "goodness".

If someone knew the secret, all of their amps would be "good", arguably better than other amps by the mystical "good" secret, and they would come to dominate the market.

It is much more likely that there is no one recipe for "goodness", since the sound of amps that are popular changes over time, so either "goodness" changes over time, or there is no one path, simply the changing preferences of people and music with time.

On the other hand, there are many provable paths to mediocrity and "badness".

[Chuck H]

Well put.

It made me think of something to add. Your point about many paths to mediocrity and "badness" is probably more to the point than any formula for relative "goodness" I think we know more about what makes an amp mediocre or bad than we do about making one good. It's only by avoiding the latter that we ever achieve the former. And then it's entirely subjective to personal style, preferences and trends. And, of course, the list of "how not to make an amp mediocre or bad" is just too long to cover in any post. This is where the decades of experience comes in. It's like staying safe. Safe and alive is "good". Imprisoned or injured is "mediocre" and dead is "bad". Who's ready to list all the ways in which one could become imprisoned, injured or dead?

The only way to "good" tube amp is learn about them. Completely. Learn about tube guitar amplifier electronics. Learn enough that you know as much about it as you naturally do about not becoming imprisoned, injured or dead. Obviously some people prove better at this than others.

[Enzo]

This discussion, or one like it, pops up all the time. There is no answer. It is like beauty in women. Does anyone really think we can sit down and "decide" just what makes a beautiful woman? (Or handsome guy, if that's your thing) Maybe you like blonde and cute - say Jessica Simpson or Britney Spears. Or maybe you like Uma Thurman. Someone probably finds Sinead O'Connor beautiful. And how are they presented? I myself do not care for the look I call female impersonator, which is to say women with way too much makeup and glammy lingeree, garter belts and so on. The way female impersonators dress. Other guys think that is exactly what they ought to look like. None of it is wrong.

Someone will suggest "Oh OK, but we can all agree on XYZ, can't we?" And i have to point out there are pornography sites not only for "pretty women" but also sites for 500 pound blubbery ones, and skinny "heroin chic" types. There are sites for leg men, and there are sites for naked amputees. Oh and pregnant ones too. So, no, we can;t all agree.

Just so amplifiers. We have guys into this and that dynamics, but unless you determine that they like death metal or cool jazz, that is a pointless decision. Guys used to poke holes in their speakers with a pencil to get a raunchy tone. What you play matters, an amp might sound great with single coils and not so great with a humbucker, or vice versa.

[jamesmafyew]

Even though sound quality is extremely difficult to evaluate, I think you can make judgments about how well a given amp design succeeds in the nexus of its multiple jobs:

1. Keep you safe
2. Produce sound(s) you like
3. Make that sound as loud as you want
4. Continue working reliably for a long time

Or, in other words: "Price, sound, reliability. Pick two." If an amp appears to violate this axiom and give you some of all three, then I would say it is a good amp. By that criterion, I think that the Peavey 5150 is one of the best amps ever made.

[Chuck H]

By that criterion, I think that the Peavey 5150 is one of the best amps ever made.

See, now, there you go!.. I bought a 5150 and played one show with it before forcing the store I bought it from to take it back. Yes, it sounded "good" with the cabinet at the store. With my cabinet it made everything I played sound like Michael Schenker of the Scorpions!?! Not that that is bad, but it's not what I wanted to sound like. To me the 5150 (or any of it's modern equivalents) are just blenders that frappe everything into a homogenized representation of mediocrity. Thus making Enzo's point. No doubt the 5150 is a great amp. Many guitarists, famous or otherwise have made excellent use of them. I will NEVER play through one again.

[Mick Bailey]

With my cabinet it made everything I played sound like Michael Schenker

I want one! I want one!

Rock bottom, rock bottom, nah nah nah nah nahhhhhh....

[Chuck H]

I want one! I want one!

Rock bottom, rock bottom, nah nah nah nah nahhhhhh....

Easy. A first generation 5150 and a 4x12 cab loaded with Celestion G12M70's. Not Celestions most popular speaker to be sure. In a standard (deep) 4x12 paired with the 5150 they sound like every Scorpions recording

[Dave H]

To me the 5150 (or any of it's modern equivalents) are just blenders that frappe everything into a homogenized representation of mediocrity.

Priceless

[Leo_Gnardo]

it made everything I played sound like Michael Schenker of the Scorpions!?!

Like you were playing thru a stuck wah pedal?

Some people want that - I've had a few requests.

[olddawg]

Like you were playing thru a stuck wah pedal?

Some people want that - I've had a few requests.

There used to be a guy that sold kits to turn your wah into a stuck deal. It worked as a regular pedal until you flipped a switch, then it was stuck. You adjusted where it was stuck with a screwdriver and a trim pot through a hole drilled into the housing. A lot of blues guys liked it.

[jamesmafyew]

I completely understand why Chuck H hates the 5150---and I'm a metal guy (who is not AT ALL into EVH). In general, I think that good cleans and good high-gain are fairly easy to do, it's the middle ground that's so challenging. Certainly more subjective. I totally get the obsession with amps like the Trainwreck Express or Dumbles or Matchless. I love those sounds while admitting they they are mostly beyond my reach, both financially and as a player.

But in defense of the 5150 -- and at the risk of starting an age-related pissing match -- that 'stuck wah' sound that makes bluesy pentatonic riffage sound nasal and quacky is a beautiful thing when you're playing downtuned palm-muting. When you cut bass and low-mids before the huge gain, then add TONS of it back in after clipping, you end up with a fully saturated sound that still has gut-punching dynamics in the low end. It's that 'dunnnnn' sound that isn't farty but still has raunchy thick mids on top of it. I can identify a 5150 three rooms away sight-unseen during a band's sound check. It is a glorious thing when it's being used to do THE thing that it does. My personal 5150II is heavily modified, sure, but that doesn't take away from the basic awesomeness of the circuit for its intended application.

For other purposes, I agree, it's awful. But if you're into metal and you want a loud, reliable amp that makes a really heavy, defined, iconic sound --- it's amazing that such a machine can be had for so little money.