Phase and NFB confusion

[Leo_Gnardo]

Sorry, but Ceriatone is in KL, the capital of Malaysia. Good food there ;-)

Whoooops! Right you are & I stand corrected. Good food all around that region I'm sure. But a liitle further north in Phillipines, I think I'll skip the wali balut. Though I've heard Wally Ballou give hundreds of field reports on Bob & Ray programs.

OK back to phase & NFB, I've caused enough confusion for the day.

[J M Fahey]

Don't worry.
Anyway exact Country is n ot important, the main point was to illustrate that annoying trend: that some "newcomer" takes the market by storm , even damaging the original maker (not in this particular case, they are way smaller than Marshall, etc. , but in general. Just think Behringer ), we all accept that , shrugging and thinking "hey, it's nice to have a cheap option ! "... and a few years later we are again paying through our noses ... and for the non original stuff.

When I was a kid, in the late 50's, cheap stuff (specially toys, which interested me at that time) came from Hong Kong, also clothing.
Then Japan started to rise its head.
I remember when Japanese stuff quality was a joke , like China was short ago ("Lonson" lighters which would not light, etc.) , in the 70's Yamaha guitars were barely usable, same with drums, they only made cheap home type organs, etc.
I remember the first Japanese motorcycles, they were cheap "kid stuff", all my friends used Harley, Matchless, Indian, Ducati, etc.
BMW was Heaven on Earth.
Look now

[jazbo8]

Funny you should bring up Ceriatone as an example, it is probably one of the least liked cloners over at TAG, yet people read the discussion forums and continue to buy from them... as you mentioned, their kits aren't really that cheap and they are also known for the "zero support" after-sales policy, so I really do not understand the attraction. It's one of the mystries of the boutique amp business...

[Enzo]

My experience with Ceria is limited to what customers have brought my way. But what I see is nicely made drawings and diagrams, pretty clear materials. And one factory wired amp someone brought over seemed to me to be well made, neatly constructed.

[loudthud]

Where do you buy those transformers cheap? I looked on ebay, Amazon, Digikey etc. It is much harder to find LV transformer than 30 years ago.

Allied Electronics ? Electronic Parts and Components Distributor
Hammond, Triad, Stancor, Allied Brand

AnTek Products Corp Manufacturer of toroids, very popular with DiyAudio crowd.

[gui_tarzan]

The combo amps have their place, just like the rest of them. My brother once had a MusicMan HD that was SS pre, tube power and he absolutely loved the sound. My bass rig is an Ampeg SVTIII (rack mount) with three pre-amp tubes and a SS power amp. My tone is amazing and all the musicians I hang with say it's incredible. I love hearing someone else play through it, I get to say "yeah, that's my rig". lol

I have a Kustom 100 head that's boned right now, I've been afraid to get into it because it's all solid state but one of these days I might. My Fender 112SE and my old Stage Lead 212 sound fantastic clean, but distorted, not so much. So to satisfy my love of blues tones I'm building a Princeton and will slightly mod it to give it a little extra smoke once I figure out exactly how to do it. I rarely play guitar these days (mostly bass) so I probably won't use it much but I want one.

[trem]

My experience with Ceria is limited to what customers have brought my way. But what I see is nicely made drawings and diagrams, pretty clear materials. And one factory wired amp someone brought over seemed to me to be well made, neatly constructed.

IF the amp was assembled by Ceriatone...then it IS a well made amp.
It will have the exact same parts you would find in a:
Carol-Ann
Dr Z
Train Wreck
Dumble
/13
Tone King
etc etc
The problem arises when people (most people) buy a (used) Ceriatone Clone, and they never look inside the chassis, and have no idea who built the amp.
A friend of mine bought a (again used) Ceriatone Marshall 1986 clone. It was making some "extra" noise, and did not have the normal Ooomph of your typical 50 Watt head.
I pulled the chassis, and almost got sick. It was built by somebody who had never built an amp before. Whoever assembled that amp made as many mistakes in one chassis as I have made in the last 7 years.
Otherwise, they are as "good" sounding and well built as any other amp for sale.
best

[jazbo8]

IF the amp was assembled by Ceriatone...then it IS a well made amp.
[snip]
Otherwise, they are as "good" sounding and well built as any other amp for sale.

All of that is true, but it still does not address JM's point which was "U$1100 for an Asian made Marshall (clone) 50W head?" I think most people would prefer to buy the "real thing" even if it costs a bit more or if 2nd hand ones are available. So why do people still buy from CT? Beats me...

[trem]

You say "Asian" like it is a bad thing...does it matter Where it is made.?
You cannot buy that amp from Marshall.
They have not made one in Many Years...the Metal Panels are a few thousand dollars, full of old parts, and F'd Up mods.
The plastic panels are 4-8k.
More than Half The World Lives A LOT closer to Asia than they do to North or South America...so for a majority of the people on the planet, a Ceritatone makes sense.
If you live in The Western Hemisphere, it will be cheaper to buy from Valve Storm, Mojo, Weber etc.
But keep in mind...even 6-7-8 years ago, there were not near as many kits/parts available as there is today. Nik was a pioneer in the field of amp clones and kits.

[jazbo8]

You say "Asian" like it is a bad thing...does it matter Where it is made.?

Of course it does, labor is so much cheaper in Asia, so CT's markup is quite high for them to charge over $1k.

You cannot buy that amp from Marshall. They have not made one in Many Years...the Metal Panels are a few thousand dollars, full of old parts, and F'd Up mods. The plastic panels are 4-8k.

Not sure which Marshall models you are referring to, but I think it's possible to get some good boutique amps and perhaps 2nd hand recent vintage Marshall 50W for $1k, no?

More than Half The World Lives A LOT closer to Asia than they do to North or South America...so for a majority of the people on the planet, a Ceritatone makes sense. If you live in The Western Hemisphere, it will be cheaper to buy from Valve Storm, Mojo, Weber etc.

Perhaps 90% of the guitar amp market is in the Western hamisphere, and I would expect most of CT's customer are in NA and the EU, of couse, that's speculation on my part... but hopefully not too far off the mark.

But keep in mind...even 6-7-8 years ago, there were not near as many kits/parts available as there is today. Nik was a pioneer in the field of amp clones and kits.

Yes, the early mover advantage is important to CT's success, however, if as you said, it's cheaper to "buy local", then why hasn't CT's sales drop off with the other companies entering the market? I guess it's really the buyer's motivation that I'm trying to understand... just curious, that's all.

[trem]

Oh Man.....not the quote game.
You KNOW what Niks expenses are.?
You KNOW where all the guitar players live.?
It IS a boutique amp...with all the same parts.
You do not like Ceriatone...I get it.
Plenty of others to choose from.
best