Banana Jack Amp Kit - No-solder Amplifier Kit on Kickstarter

[Leo_Gnardo]

As to the thread itself, anyone who doesn;t like the thread should simply stop posting. When the only one left is Gerry, even he will get tired of it and stop. The thread will disappear on its own. There is no reason to go postal on the thread and kill it.

Seems the only thing that will satisfy Gerry is to get a big big pile of free money. Ideas, advice, not interested. Just cash.

After 3 days of scratching around here, no gold nuggets, eh? Time to move on kid, try The Gear Page next, they're always good for a hoot. And you won't find most of us there. A whole fresh crowd of potential "marks."

Just move this farrago to Storm Drain, please moderators! Nobody's 'going postal', nor suggesting it. Those who wish to continue, can continue there. I'll have another look after it's left to ferment in Storm Drain a couple of weeks.

I'm going back to earning my living the honest way, by working for it. See you on other more productive threads Enzo & the rest of the usual suspects!

Except for this:

Of course you can send ME cash. My fund raiser, failure is NOT an option. I have a pile of post cards, ready to go. Rio, here we come! Donate a grand, I send you a post card from Rio. That's how it works. More money more post cards. More money more post cards. More money more post cards. In case you didn't get it yet, more money, more post cards. Better deal than this tinkertoy amp scheme, promise. But nobody gets one until I have $39,000 minimum. Don't delay, send your hard earned cash today. Leo Gnardo needs a holiday. That's me, hanging out with Cristo Redentor, in the foreground. I know from where my fortune comes. Later the beach, then party up on Sugar Loaf. Pass me a caipirinha sweetie, nice bikini you got there too. Did you make that out of half a handkerchief? Yowsa! Whoo-eeee! my my my . . . now THIS is the life!

[loudthud]

The statue is Christ the Redeemer (in English) and it gets hit with lightning once or twice a year.

[Loogie]

I think its a very cool idea. But like just about everyone here I'm a little dubious about the banana plugs. It would seem to me quite possible to design an interconnect system that could reduce the shock probability significantly. The experimenters among us might enjoy something that allowed us to change the operating conditions of the modules. I think your intended audience could have a lot of fun with this though, but you really need to rethink how you connect them up. Do that to my satisfaction and I might just kick in a few sawbucks.

[J M Fahey]

Time to move on kid, try The Gear Page next, they're always good for a hoot. And you won't find most of us there. A whole fresh crowd of potential "marks."

Don't subestimate other Forums.
Haven't checked TGP yet but in The Amp Garage they are no fools and have been bashing him from the beginning.
With good reason, of course.
The Amp Garage :: View topic - Gerry's got a kickstarter
banana-jack-amps-no-solder-all-tube-guitar-amp-kit
where the first answer was:

Just remember to lick your finger ends before grabbing those colorful banana jacks kids...

to prove that it was not just coincidence, the second was:

where do i plug in the hose? ..... im giving a negative donation..... im halfway through and thoroughly pissed!!

sounds like shit! what a terrible recording of an awful idea..... fitting i guess

you pissed me off first thing in the morning, before coffee even....

and so on.

[Gerry Rzeppa]

I think its a very cool idea. But like just about everyone here I'm a little dubious about the banana plugs. It would seem to me quite possible to design an interconnect system that could reduce the shock probability significantly. The experimenters among us might enjoy something that allowed us to change the operating conditions of the modules. I think your intended audience could have a lot of fun with this though, but you really need to rethink how you connect them up. Do that to my satisfaction and I might just kick in a few sawbucks.

Thanks for the encouragement. Unfortunately, it all boils down to money. When you're building 10,000 of something, you can put whatever kind of connectors you can dream up on it; when you're building a prototype or a mere 100, you've got to use what's readily and economically available. If my Kickstarter goal was $3,900,000, I'd be promising all kinds of things to the backers (including, but not limited to, additional safety features); but the goal is only $39,000, which is pretty close to break-even on the 100 amps promised to the backers, using the readily-available parts pictured, so it is what it is.

We thought 3.9 million was too ambitious a goal for a project with such a narrow and limited market; so we settled for something we thought more feasible (and yet, at least in our minds, reasonably safe). Judging by the backer response to date, we obviously went wrong somewhere. But I don't think it is the safety issue; I suspect it is more that (a) the kit is not complete enough for the average guitarist -- he wants the modules, sure, but he also wants the cabinet and speaker that go with them; and (b) the kit is too easy for the average do-it-yourselfer -- who already knows how to solder and would be more attracted if he could not only banana jack the modules together, but build the individual modules as well. But I'm only guessing, and it's very early in the "market evaluation" phase of this thing.

(Note that you can tell very little about the market from threads like this one. Comments on forums are generally not representative of the kind of response to a product or idea that someone gets in the real world. The remarks you read here are quite different from the "behind the scenes" remarks that come from former customers, interested backers, other entrepreneurs, established manufacturers, etc. Forum participants rarely represent an unbiased cross-section of any target market.)

[dai h.]

I've been watching this thread. All the while thinking to myself that I learned how to solder when I was ten years old.
The only merit I see here is that it could be used as a teaching tool at a very basic level after addressing the safety issues. Otherwise, it's laughable.

I think it's possible that some kids could complete the project themselves without getting shocked. But what if this clever enough child (with what seems a common natural curiousity) gets bored after completing the project, and starts thinking, "Hmm... You know, this thing (exposed banana plug) fits right into this other thing. What happens if..." Also, I don't really such see much of an intellectual reward for a youngster and with the added AC powering and high voltage danger factors, not sure how this could be construed as a good idea. A nice set of Lego blocks would seem to be more helpful to encourage creativity.

re: the sound clip, I actually thought the *playing* was good but I agree with the others who perceive the tone as rather below par. If somone wanted to "sound as good" though, I think it would make more sense to take guitar lessons or perhaps learn with some FREE resources, like so:

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...guitar+lessons

plus teach themselves how to tune the guitar (important for "good sound"--typically with an instrument such as piano, someone is hired (and paid) to come by and tune the instrument) :

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...%2C+intonation


As far as the notion (implied) of "a real tube amp being too expensive and out of reach at around USD $300 (and therefore this easy to assemble kit being a worthwhile good deal)", this simply is not true (and apparently the kit does not include a cabinet and speaker without which the tube amp is useless) :

(quick google reveals a few examples: )

Vox AC4C1-BL 1x10

AC4C1-BL combo features 12AX7 preamp (sic) tubes and EL84 power (sic) tubes

Vox AC4C1-BL 1x10" 4-Watt Vintage Blue Tube Combo
Special Offer: 0% Interest for 24 Months!
4-watt, 1x10" Tube Guitar Amplifier Combo with Custom Celestion Speaker There are two classic Vox tones that guitar players really want, the classic clean chime and the rowdier Top Boost. The Vox AC4C1-BL gives you both tones in a compact and affordable package. This all-tube 4-watt combo gives you classic Vox tones through a Celestion 10" speaker. Volume,... More Info...
(14 reviews)

Sale Price: $299.99

List Price: $407.99
Free Tech Support
Free 2-year Warranty


Blackstar HT-1 1x8

1xECC83 and 1xECC82 tube complement

Blackstar HT-1 1x8" 1-Watt Tube Combo
Special Offer: 0% Interest for 24 Months!
1-watt 1 x 8" Combo Tube Amp What can a single watt do for you? A whole lot, if it's coming out of the Blackstar HT-1 tube combo amp! Whether you're seeking a great-sounding practice amp or want to be able to saturate that tube power section in the studio, you'll love what this mighty little 1 x 8" combo does for... More Info...
(5 reviews)
Want to save even more?

We have a Demo model available for just $224.99. Learn more

Sale Price: $249.99

List Price: $337.49
Free Tech Support
Free 2-year Warranty


Ibanez TSA5 1x10

an all-tube design that combines a 12AX7 preamp tube and a 6V6 power tube

Ibanez TSA5 1x10" 5-Watt Tube Combo
Special Offer: 0% Interest for 24 Months!
5-watt All-tube Combo Guitar Amplifier with Built-in TS9 Tube Screamer Tone Circuit and 10" Celestion Speaker The Ibanez TSA5 combo guitar amplifier gives you real tube tone with the distortion and overdrive of a TS9 Tube Screamer pedal. A perfect marriage of the TS9's super-popular stompbox-style distortion with an all-tube amp (complete with a genuine Celestion speaker), the TSA5 combo amp... More Info...
(3 reviews)

Sale Price: $249.99

List Price: $333.32
Free Tech Support
Free 2-year Warranty


If someone wants to learn electronics, how to solder, etc. there are FREE resources for that as well (some quickly searched off-the-cuff examples) :

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...be+electronics

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...=how+to+solder

Technical books online


Lastly, I agree that this is hardly a case of "the little guy with the great idea raging against the machine and getting repressed". This is more a case of "someone with a bad idea getting a collective face palm".

[Enzo]

I'd have to say I bet even the majority of kids could assemble this and not electrocute themselves. hell they will recall a few million automobiles if a handful of complaints come in for some brakes problem. But how many is too many? One? Two? Four hundred?


But having said that, I have to agree with Dai. I started in electronics about 1954, when my dad bought me a crystal radio kit. I put it together, and by god it worked, I could listen to local radio stations. The basic kit was a square of masonite, we taped down a paper template, then screwed down some Fahnestock clips for the parts. I lasted maybe two days before I had it back apart, trying various "new ways" of connecting the parts. I found out which parts were necessary and which not, I found ways it worked and ways it didn;t.

A crystal radio circuit does not have a power supply, but that would't have stopped me. I guarantee you if I had a bunch of banana plugs and saw that they fit the other holes, I;d be seeing what the other holes reaction might be to a "new way" of connecting.



Some years back, the music store i was at sold little MIDI accessories. Guys would plug the wrong power adaptor into them and blow them up. There were nor protective diodes inside. At least on a Boss FX pepal you can count on that diode in the corner being shorted when this happens. I called the company to ask what went bad when wrong power was applied. The guy then told me in no uncertain terms. "Oh no, we specifically point out in the manual that ONLY our adaptor be used." Hate to burst your bubble pal, but that won;t stop them.

All the warning labels and instruction books in the world will not stop someone - especially a kid - from hooking it up wrong.

In fact, you know a good way to attract the attention of a young male? Sparks. And if he finds a banana male touching something else makes a spark, believe me that will become a real fascination for him.

[DrGonz78]

My worry about the Banana Plug amp kit is the appeal to simplify the building of an amp and not really building to the experience level of the technician. Can you really call someone who plugs all these cables together into all the modules a technician? Or should only an experienced technician be able to use such an unsafe product as they will know how to be careful? I think the simplicity of the product is pointed to the direction of someone who cannot call themselves a technician. So, not only are the jacks exposed to a high B+ voltage, but there is no discipline building in the user. Repairing amps helped me become disciplined enough to build my first tube amp kit. I always remember reading a book that showed you how to build a tube amp and then turn it on. If the amp was not working at that point the author told the user to take the amp to a certified technician to diagnose the problem. My problem with that approach is that nobody in their right mind should be even building an amp that they can't service.

So there is also the risk of not draining HV filtering caps. What sort of instructions are you going to provide to the inexperienced user of the product to understand how to drain the caps? So really I see this product best in the market for experienced amp builders as a way to test different arrangements of modules together. Unfortunately, I see that most of those consumers in the market place (at least here and on other sites) don't feel that your product is safe. So why design a product that is not up to par with your peers? I think the idea of the product is interesting but the execution is way off in the most simplest terms.

[Gerry Rzeppa]

...I think the simplicity of the product is pointed to the direction of someone who cannot call themselves a technician. So, not only are the jacks exposed to a high B+ voltage, but there is no discipline building in the user."

I understand what you're saying. But we believe the necessary discipline has already been built in to our prospective customers. From earliest childhood they have been exposed to things at least as dangerous as our banana cables, in every room of their homes, just a foot off the floor they were crawling on:



And they were told, repeatedly, in no uncertain terms, by pretty much everyone, to treat such things with the greatest of caution -- instilling in them an almost limbic fear of all things electrical.

Keep in mind, also, that just because something is as easy as LEGO, it's not necessarily intended for six-year-olds. A person who has (a) learned how to play a guitar, and who (b) appreciates fine distinctions in tone enough to desire a valve amp, and who (c) has enough discipline to save up $270, probably knows not to mess with wires that are plugged (directly or indirectly) into the wall. Probably cuts his steak with a sharp knife, too; maybe even shaves with a razor. No doubt has crossed busy streets, ridden a bicycle near moving vehicles, perhaps has even driven a car or truck himself. Maybe he's from down here in Kentucky, where, typically before reaching puberty, he drives a tractor, shoots deer with a rifle, and uses a chain saw to cut limbs off trees.

So there is also the risk of not draining HV filtering caps. What sort of instructions are you going to provide to the inexperienced user of the product to understand how to drain the caps?

There's a bleeder resistor on the rectifier/filter module. Down to 5 volts in less than 3 seconds.

So really I see this product best in the market for experienced amp builders as a way to test different arrangements of modules together.

We, too, picture such people as a big part of our intended market.

Unfortunately, I see that most of those consumers in the market place (at least here and on other sites) don't feel that your product is safe.

I'm pretty sure forums such as this one don't represent a true cross-section of the market. Comments from former customers, hands-on beta-testers, interested backers, other entrepreneurs, established manufacturers, etc, are skewed quite differently.

So why design a product that is not up to par with your peers? I think the idea of the product is interesting but the execution is way off in the most simplest terms.

A good designer must always seek a balance between competing objectives (ease of use, cost, safety, reliability, beauty, etc) when attempting to satisfy the overall goals of a project (in this case, an (a) educational kit, (b) that results in something that's more than a toy, (c) built entirely with basic electronic components like resistors and transformers rather than op-amps and microprocessors). Our budget allowed $500 for the prototype, and it had to be such that we could produce 100 similar kits at a price that would be attractive to a typical do-it-yourself kind of guitarist. Improvements, of course, can always be made. But as a "proof of concept" prototype, in my opinion, we hit the target: the kit as a whole and the individual modules are simple, elegant, affordable, easy to understand, easy to use, easy to extend, sturdy, and yes, reasonably safe for the intended audience (safer, we think, than any other chassis-only tube amp kit in this class). I'm proud of it.

[g1]

Gerry: imagine that wall AC outlet with male pins sticking out of it instead of female receptacles. Do you understand why it is done that way?

[Merlinb]

All that is required to make it really quite safe is:
1) Put the IEC socket, fuses and transformer in the same box;
2) Instead of having loose jumper cables, have each cable permanently wired to its 'downstream' box;
3) Use different sized plugs/sockets for different purposes.

This does not mean it would conform perfectly to UL, but for practical purposes it would be surprisingly safe.

[gui_tarzan]

*sigh*

Gerry, we're not talking about 120v that just scares the crap out of someone if they touch it, we're talking about 300-350+ volts that CAN KILL SOMEONE.

*banging head on desk*

My bet is that most people don't know the difference and when you say "high voltage", it means nothing to them. They don't understand how the different voltages affect the human body.

If you don't put some sort of a safety mechanism that for example decouples the power from the leads when one end is not connected, you have no way to prevent accidental death from high voltage. There's an idea for you - an automatic decoupler that removes all power from all leads unless they're plugged in correctly.

[J M Fahey]

Looks like Gerry Banana Jack Amp is getting somewhat dismayed about the World's lack of interest on his last killing machine, so he's bumping it all over the place, since it seems he won't pull enough customers from Kevorkian Corporation.

This is a fresh stint from DIY Audio.

Surprisingly, although that's one Forum noted for embracing far-from-standard ideas, they didn't exactly answer his plea. (as in: no one/zero)

Posted by you-know-who
Banana Jack Amps: No-Solder All-Tube Modular Guitar Amp Kits
Now on Kickstarter, looking for backers:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...guitar-amp-kit

Check it out. Tell your friends. Thanks!

[J M Fahey]

Looks like Gerry Banana Jack Amp is getting somewhat dismayed about the World's lack of interest on his last killing machine, so he's bumping it all over the place, since it seems he won't pull enough customers from Kevorkian Corporation.

This is a fresh stint from DIY Audio.

Surprisingly, although that's one Forum noted for embracing far-from-standard ideas, they didn't exactly answer his plea. (as in: no one/zero)

Posted by you-know-who
Banana Jack Amps: No-Solder All-Tube Modular Guitar Amp Kits
Now on Kickstarter, looking for backers:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...guitar-amp-kit

Check it out. Tell your friends. Thanks!

[Merlinb]

Now you're just being spiteful.