What can we do now that the guys in the Golden Age would have done if they could?

[Alan0354]

As an aside, I ran into the "Reverend" brand guitars at several guitar shows. I can't say they're all this way, but all of the ones I have picked up off the show rack were beautifully set up (at least to my preferences) and playable right as they came. I have no connection with the company, just know the guitars and people from seeing them at the shows. I talked to them about this same issue. They said that they do spend a lot of time on setup at the factory. Seems to fit with the observations here.

Set up is the most important thing, that's where the feel and playability come in. There's a lot of truth people buy a Mexican Strat and really spend the time to adjust the action, the neck and everything to make it a good playing guitar. Then buy a set of pups to their taste.

I own over 30 sets of pups, They can sound so different. The magic of sound is really in the pup.

The cheap Chinese strat copy sound great, but it's so awful to play.

[GregS]

There's probably more consistency between guitars of the same make and model now than there was in the past due to modern manufacturing methods such as computer guided routers. However, I find when trying out guitars that should be the same that they are often very different - even with high end expensive models. One can be totally dead and feel lousy in your hands and another can sound and feel great and be totally inspiring. I believe it has more to do with the setup (as another poster already mentioned) and the age and mileage on the strings. The latter is a variable that is likely not going to be the same from instrument to instrument and makes a HUGE difference to the instruments tone and sustain. Most of the uninspiring guitars could probably be made inspring with a simple string change and setup. Then again, if you find one that sounds and plays great as is you know you definitely have a good one!

Greg

[Alan0354]

Ha ha, one guitar is inspiring to one player is a dud for another player. This is so personal. I think no matter cheap or expensive, it's very important to do your own setup. It is so important and so individual. Even the pup height is personal. people been talking about keeping the strat pup low. But I've seen enough famous people have their pup way high. Clapton, Robin Trowell are two I can think of. I bet they have stratise on their guitar.

Not to mention people's taste change too. For years, I treasure my HSH strat. But because I was working on strat noise cancellation, I changed it out with the SSS. It's been 3 years and I just put it back last night because I want a humbucker to test the amp. I hated the sound!!!! It was the same setup, in the exact same 97 Am Std guitar as before. My taste changed. I went through so many pickup to finalize to the setup and I hate it now!!!

[Tooboob]

I own over 30 sets of pups, They can sound so different. The magic of sound is really in the pup.

Here's an interesting link for you ...

BuildYourGuitar.com :: The Secrets of Electric Guitar Pickups

or get carried away with it ...

BuildYourGuitar.com :: The Secrets of Electric Guitar Pickups

[Wombaticus]

If I can think of one thing that golden age designers would have gone apeshit for, it's probably the ease with which we can nowadays accomplish voltage regulation and smoothing with the aid of some solid state candy. I'm thinking both in terms of three pin regulators and amplified zener or capacitor multiplier type circuits...

[überfuzz]

A Swedish company, Hagtröms, tried to ship guitar amplifiers with ss amplification. Most of them were VERY loud without any break up. Well, there are numerous anecdotes about how big bands came to Sweden back in the sixties and were baffled about how the amps sounded so sterile here. (Big events and shows here almost always had Hagström back-lines.) These Hagström ss guitar amps did sell but never in any big numbers.

This is kind of how I see it. If I want hifi i go with ss and modern stuff all the way, like in PA systems. When I want a dirty guitar sound with a proper amount of gnarls I go tube.

[Chuck H]

This is why I never understood the lack of acceptance of the hybrid gear. When you consider rock music trends toward louder, tighter V notch EQ tones the tube preamp with a SS power amp seems like a brilliant arrangement. But you just didn't see many pro's using them. Hmm.?. Two examples of how well this CAN work would be: 1) The Ho/Ultimate attenuator. It loads the amp and pads the signal only to re amplify it with a 250W SS power amp. A brilliant idea and no tonal complaints that I've read about. 2) While not SS power, many modern uber gain amps gave up on trying to sell SS power amps that no one wanted, so instead use a fairly stiff and powerful tube power amp that's never actually driven into any clipping. With stiffer power supplies, more feedback and just generally less guitar amp like designs applied to the power amp circuits. In these amps you COULD substitute a SS power amp without much change in tone at all. But players are never as quick to respond to such realities as designers are. And the amp companies themselves are just trying to sell amps. So we give 'em what they want whether it's in anyone's best interest or not.

[R.G.]

@Chuck H:
I've run on some players that are convinced that a guitar signal is permanently damaged in some way by ever going through a SS amp. A very few of them can be convinced by asking them why someone would ever mike an amp and run it through a PA, which is never tube. But there are some that will insist that this "doesn't count" somehow, and others that will insist that a miked amp through a PA is uglified somehow.

What you gonna do? It's the humans that are the problem!

[Chuck H]

I love tube gear. I've never built a SS amp in my life!!! I just use tubes because I already know the circuits. I probably could build a SS amp without too much trouble, but why? I'm just a hobbyist that sells a design sometimes. I'm not trying to change the world.

My point is... I'm a tube guy with just enough tech to avoid killing myself or others . It would be easy for me to get on the all tube attitude wagon, but I know better because I pay attention and listen. It's hard for me to relate to people that adamantly believe or disbelieve in anything without factual evidence to support their position. So I'm clueless about why guitar players and guru techs perpetuate useless lore and trends. What doesn't confuse me at all is that companies will step up to make and sell whatever they want to buy. The whole scene is just a progress anchor.

[Audiotexan]

Interesting tidbits that I was watching day before yesterday, and interestingly on topic currently!

Seems Patrick from QSC is bringing an old idea back to life. And it covers the premise of having the audio qualities (responsiveness/etc) of tubes, but is 100% SS.

The amps: Quilter MicroPro 200 Quick Start

Quilter Aviator vs. Vintage Fender

A *very cool* bit about the process of manufacturing it's sibling...
How the Quilter Tone Block 200 guitar head is made right here in Costa Mesa, California!

And a bit about the man himself (who could quite easily already be here! lol)
Meet Patrick Quilter

And NO. I don't work for/distribute/endorse/whatever...them.
But I do find it funny that after being away from here for a week or two, that I come back to find this totally relating to what I just viewed/ran across. lol

Hope ya'll enjoy as much as I did!

[Alan0354]

I have no issue with with the sound of SS guitar amps. It's just matter of taste. I do have issue with the cheapness build of SS amp because they are selling cheap and companies have to cut corner to build it cheaper. I can't stand their cheap chassis.

Problem is people have a false believe that tube amps sound better for guitar. It's not what the truths is or what you amp heads think, it's what the customers willing to pay. If they are willing to pay more money for a tube amp, you make tube amp or you find another way to make money.

Right now, I am finishing up my two guitar amps, I already decided my next project is going to be an audiophile amp for my own use. So there is not even pretending business. I am not stuck in tube amp anymore. In fact I am finishing up reading the SS amp book by Bob Cordell and I have ideas in building a SS power amp. I already made significant improvement to my Acurus SS power amp.

A lot of people do not realize guitar amp sound particular OD sound are man made. There is no good or bad. People follow the sound of their favorite guitarist. Then the next generation follow the old generation. Clapton, Hendrix etal made Marshall, Fender etc. famous. So people follow their sound and use tube amps. Are those amp really better? Who knows, but those old amps become the bench mark of sound where people use to judge other amps. If Clapton or Hendrix used a SS amp, maybe SS amp will gain a lot more acceptance. I found I can overcome some issue with tube circuit by mix in a little transistors, but I did not implement into my design......Only because if I ever sell it one day, that will cheapen the amp even though I made the amp sound better.

[loudthud]

R. Aspen Pittman said it best when he said, (this is not a direct quote, I can't find it right now) " It's not that tubes amps sound better than solid state amps, it's that they feel better." All the "improvements" that solid state technology brings like tons of global feedback and regulated power supplies take away from the feel of a guitar amp. If the engineers back in the golden years had the technology we have today, they would have designed guitar amps that were loud as hell and sounded really cold and lifeless.

[eschertron]

If the engineers back in the golden years had the technology we have today, they would have designed guitar amps that were loud as hell and sounded really cold and lifeless.

Have to agree 100%. What we know and revere now as 'tone' is simply the end result of the product used (and abused) in its time. The mojo is all in the way we feel about the sounds we grew up with. If guitar amps had been transistorized from the beginning, that'd be all we know; that'd be what we're familiar with and what we preferred.

Since these "loud as hell ... cold and lifeless" amps reproduce all the sound of guitar exactly, I'd bet that guitar technology would be vastly different than it is today, though.

[Justin Thomas]

I'd bet that guitar technology would be vastly different than it is today, though.

Or, in that TV commercial, Lil Jimi woulda picked up that accordion instead of the electric guitar...

I tend to think that even if amps had been made loud as hell and clean & lifeless, guitarists would still be slashing speakers, dumping beer on them, throwing them out windows, adding or subtracting parts, and turning them on 10 just to see what happens. Though I can honestly say, the cheapest crappiest tube amps I've ever played STILL sound better to me than the cheapest crappiest SS amps I've ever played.

Of course, there's no way to predict the psychology of tone or how millions of possible guitarists would see it. Maybe 10 million guitarists would turn on their lefeless loud as hell amps, wind up to 10, and say, "screw this! I'm going to the symphony and taking up bassoon!"

No offense to any bassoonists who may be reading...

Justin