More than 1 spkr. Why?

[Enzo]

The volume difference would be small, but maybe just noticeable.

The kid asks what the difference is, the shopkeeper says, "Here they are side by side, plug into one and play it, then plug into the other and play it. See which one sounds better to you." They will sound different. The reason is all that complicated stuff which you want to ignore. So be it, just accept they sound different without the complex technical reasoning.

[Sea Chief]

The volume difference would be small, but maybe just noticeable.

The kid asks what the difference is, the shopkeeper says, "Here they are side by side, plug into one and play it, then plug into the other and play it. See which one sounds better to you." They will sound different. The reason is all that complicated stuff which you want to ignore. So be it, just accept they sound different without the complex technical reasoning.

Ok taken on board Enzo- succinctly put. Glad the vol increace isn't alot- or Id have shot myself in the foot somewhat as I rarely play it above 3 (unfortunately). It will be intersting to hear how 2 different spkrs sound together.. or not together as it may sound/ hopefully not. Ive never heard 2 different spkrs working as a pair you see- wondered what the reasoning was but as you elude to, it might be purely subjective.

Your ever spotty twat, SC.

[Raybob]

Another aspect not being mentioned is the 3-D effect of two speakers, compared to one. It's similar to the difference of being in a room where a Leslie cab is used, compared to listening to a recorded B3/leslie played back through sound system. Two speakers side by side, will sound different depending on where you are in the room. Directly in front, sound waves hit at the same time. Off-axis from center brings a different 'timbre' to the sound, due to the micro-seconds difference in time of the waves 'slightly' out of phase. A 2x12 cab sounds way different in a room set vertical, then it does sitting horizontal, depending on where you are in the room.

[pdf64]

Another aspect not being mentioned is the 3-D effect of two speakers...

I think that RG seems to have covered this in Post#4?

Regarding the 3dB mutual coupling thing, see some tests by Celestion Test Results from Celestion on the effect of adding a second Cab! | The Gear Page

I tried to test the mutual coupling effect for myself, using a 2x12 open back cab with greenbacks, but adding sockets so it could be used as an 8 ohm 1x12 or full 16 ohm 2x12, and used a changeover footswitch to select between the 16ohm amp output to the 2x12, and the 8 ohm output to the 1x12.
The amp was a 5E3 kinda thing; I added a 470 ohm resistor across the 16 ohm output in case the switch was inadvertently operated whilst the amp was passing significant signal, to mitigate flyback.
So I was able to make a direct instant AB comparison between 1x12 and 2x12 being driven at the same power level by a cranked amp.
My finding was that the 1x12 sounded thinner, the 2x12 had noticeably bigger louder fuller sound, especially with power chords.
However, when playing lead licks on the high strings up past the 12th fret, there was very little difference between the 1x12 and 2x12, though when moving around in the room whilst holding a high note down, the differing comb filter effect from the 2x12 at different places could be noticed, whereas the 1x12 was more consistent in this regard.

Given the choice, I suspect most people would prefer the sound of the 2x12.

The main weak point in my experiment was that when in 1x12 mode, the operational speaker had effectively a large port in the baffle, due to the non-operational speaker, which may be to blame for the thinner tone (in the same way that Fender combos tend to sound thinner if the amp chassis is out, leaving an open slot above the baffle).
My 'back-burner' project to mitigate this is to build a 2x12 cab with a segregating board between the speakers, so more effectively two 1x12 cabs in one cab.

[Jot]

Why did (guitar amp) manufacturers begin using more than one speaker? Because, in the 1950s and for years thereafter, upping the wattage of the amp was much more expensive than adding a speaker and building a larger cabinet.

The fact that they used cabinets, often open backed, that were just large enough to accommodate the speakers attests to the fact that they weren't worrying or even thinking about the acoustic properties of the speakers and enclosure.

[Enzo]

And the larger surface area of cone allowed better production of lower end signal.

When I was a touring sound man, I used to walk across the back of the hall and listen to the cancellation pattern as I walked through the nodes of that comb effect. Easily audible.

Play a steady note through a 2x12 or 2x10 whatever, and walk across the sound field listening. You should be able to hear it.

[d95err]

Why did (guitar amp) manufacturers begin using more than one speaker? Because, in the 1950s and for years thereafter, upping the wattage of the amp was much more expensive than adding a speaker and building a larger cabinet.

I would rather argue that the speakers of the time had very low power handling capacity. To cope with the increased demand for higher powered amps, multiple speakers had to be used.

[Sea Chief]

I would rather argue that the speakers of the time had very low power handling capacity. To cope with the increased demand for higher powered amps, multiple speakers had to be used.

Which implies there -is- a considerabe difference in volume, I assume if we are talking increaced power of amps.

Is there naturally more compression with 10" speakers over 12"? (IE sonically/ perceptably.. not physics lesson please!).

[Leo_Gnardo]

not physics lesson please!).

Phar phrum physics, there's a matter of styling too, consider the early 2-by Fenders with that attractive chrome strip down the middle. Borrowed something from the car designs of the times.



Woah daddy-o! Gotta get me one of those, and a duck-tail haircut to go with it!

[DRH1958]

Phar phrum physics, there's a matter of styling too, consider the early 2-by Fenders with that attractive chrome strip down the middle. Borrowed something from the car designs of the times.

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Woah daddy-o! Gotta get me one of those, and a duck-tail haircut to go with it!

Although part of the function of that chrome strip was to create an outward direction for the two separate baffles. They each point outward from the usual straight-on axis of standard cabs. The metal actually is a soft V and joins the baffles together, allowing the outward direction for better sound dispersion. The amp was way ahead of its time IMHO.

[Sea Chief]

I think those ^ look right crappy me.. Ill get my coat.

Wghat about those early 50's styled Watkins Dominators then, their two 10's at almost 45* to each other-? RI ones thesedays iirc.

Anyway I'll post up impressions when Ive made a new DR baffle & got these two 10" in instead of my 12" fender oxfartford. Should be only a week or so. Yummy scrum.

Fender Twin 1969 12" oxfart speaker FS then.. roll up.

[Leo_Gnardo]

I think those ^ look right crappy me..

No worries, it's "art", not everything's for everybody. Those ol' Fenders remind me of split windshield pickup trucks, all the rage at the time.



WEM Dominator, also Gibson GA-79RVT. Then the Bose 802... I'll take a pickup truck. Or "sedan delivery" if ya got one.

[Sea Chief]

Split screen cars are great, esp the VW camper.. a lovely aesthetic design.. but those early fenders, eek no/ I think the star designers were yet to arrive at the Co in 1951 or w'evaa. I bet they sound bloody lovely though- thats a different matter.

[Alex R]

I'm always recommending trying two different speakers in a pair. Almost always a better sound than two the same due I guess to the fill-in effects mentioned earlier. Richer, more complex. Subjective but there we are, and replacing just one speaker in a pair costs a lot less as well as sounding better than replacing both.

[Sea Chief]

Well good, Im lookijng fwd to hearing these two: 1 ceramic 1 alnico. never had an alnico before, but I tried my DR (head) thru just a single P10R t'other day (in the top of a Bandmaster baffle, w'out other 2 spkrs even in yet, or amp itself @ the back) and it was great, really nice sound. Straight out the box too apparently/ not even broken in (whatever that means exactly). I'd have stuck there were it not for my DR 1x12 ext cab below is a bit big for just one small 10".. plus I was recommended a C10Q by way of the graphy spiel lines looking "a very good match" to th P10R by my amp chap, whose got me one for a mere £30. So made sense: now whether the sound + the P10R will make any sense to me.. lets see.