Maxing amps- how long is ok?

[Sea Chief]

[QUOTE=Chuck H;413349]

Thanks ChuckH. Wont be reading your posts again

And you are disingenuous and playing all these good people like puppets to dance for your amusement. Why? Mommy didn't hug little SC enough as a kid? It's the same MO with you every thread. Go get a turtle for a friend then. Or some other thing too slow to get away from you. Then you can play with it and leave us be, troll.

Im not being disingenous, Ive just asked a few Qs'.. and tho grateful (as I say time after time after time ChuckH, to you, to those good folks who know who they are) Ive here been deluged with pages of info, from many folks all at the same time, most of which I dont understand. Playing people- you need to grow up.

You patronise me so often ChuckH, almost every thread; & you are showing yourself to be a child first & foremost. I have no idea what a troll is, I dont frequent forums apart from the odd Q on here (if its some nasty thing lurking & suddenly spieling meanness, which afair one is, then I can think of a few suspects that moniker fits to like a glove on this forum).

Electronics & amps I find another language & it takes me ages to understand certain things, esp tube amps which seem simple on the face of it but a myriad of complexity underneath, to me (not to you).

Stop being mean please. SC

[nosaj]

I havent after a week.. no. But I havent learnt anything by this exercise. Ive just come to the (perfectly relevant) Q as a result, as to how long could I continue using the amp like so? Is it bad for the amp like so?.

Considering one reads plenty of spiel on power tubes going pop, it seems sensible to ask how/ why/ when its most likely whwn the amp is dimed.. exactly like Ive been doing.

Do you understand how/ why/ in what context Im asking these Q's now?

You still mention watts as if Ive any idea what you are talking about. If its not explained in relation to the Q- then I dont have one iota of an idea do I?

They go pop because something wears out. You fix it then go on. Do you ask the tire store all these questions when you replace tires? probably not.
You need to go online and take a basic electronics class just like in school you have to learn abc's before you can make sentences. You have to do work on your own to learn people cannot keep spelling it out and you not getting it if you wont start with basics.
nosaj
http://music-electronics-forum.com/t30661/
Please answer jfaheys question

No, not solely.
It depends on: guitar level + amp level + playing level .
So even if all knobs (amp and guitar ) are on 10, if you do not play anything the amp is still at idle.
Please answer:
YES, I understand this.
NO, I do not understand this.
YES/NO <-- pick one.

No further questions or answers possible until you answer this first one.
Thanks.

[Sea Chief]

Im done with being patronised on here & as I cant see how to igonre nosjaf & chuck's schoolyard antics- Ive had enough.

Cheers Dave H/ pdf64, JPB. I'll read your replies again & maybe it will click later on. SC

[nosaj]

Im done with being patronised on here & as I cant see how to igonre nosjaf & chuck's schoolyard antics- Ive had enough.

Cheers Dave H/ pdf64, JPB. I'll read your replies again & maybe it will click later on. SC

Even now you won't answer jfaheys question on what you do or don't understand . So here goes upper right portion of screen click settings then on the lower left choose edit ignore settings and choose everyone. Oh my bad you already do that. I even included a picture for you

nosaj

[J M Fahey]

TROLL

Answering you is a WASTE of time

Forget MEF, and stop bugging your invisible friend, here's a couple experienced Techs, with oscillators, weaned on Tube juice, who will LOVE to answer all your silly questions:

[Chuck H]

Im not being disingenous, Ive just asked a few Qs'.. and tho grateful (as I say time after time after time ChuckH, to you, to those good folks who know who they are) Ive here been deluged with pages of info, from many folks all at the same time, most of which I dont understand. Playing people- you need to grow up.

You patronise me so often ChuckH, almost every thread; & you are showing yourself to be a child first & foremost. I have no idea what a troll is, I dont frequent forums apart from the odd Q on here (if its some nasty thing lurking & suddenly spieling meanness, which afair one is, then I can think of a few suspects that moniker fits to like a glove on this forum).

Electronics & amps I find another language & it takes me ages to understand certain things, esp tube amps which seem simple on the face of it but a myriad of complexity underneath, to me (not to you).

Stop being mean please. SC

See, there, this is your MO. First you come off like the four year old "little question man" with your endless stream of asking but not listening while everyone tries to explain and re explain the same damn thing over and over in the hopes that some different wording will get through. This must feel like a hug. Attentions are being lavished upon you without condition. But now... This is the part where you act all butt hurt like a puppy that's been unduly punished. Now I'm supposed to pet you and say I'm sorry. I don't buy it. And anyone here whose followed a couple of your threads has seen it too. Or will notice the pattern now that I've outlined it. The jig is up.

Sadly it occurs to me that you may not be doing this consciously. But you ARE doing it. Which might indicate a more serious a problem for you than stressed out amplifiers. But that's not the sort of thing we can help with. So... Good luck with that.

[tedmich]

This is what teaching students can often seem like, made more bearable by the procession of new fresh faces asking (often identical) questions.

Repeating explanations endlessly for the SAME confused face can get old real fast.
On the bright side it hones your pedagogical skill set but that can become cold comfort if the student seems unwilling to put in as much work as the teacher is expected to.

[Chuck H]

If only that applied to this scenario. But I fear in this case we spent very little time teaching and the rest of it dancing to someone's twisted music.

[pdf64]

Ive been diming my DR and my Champ for the last few days FYI. And plenty of times before too.

Im just trying to understand the state of the amp like so.

Note that the Champ is a different kettle of fish; being single ended (ie rather than push - pull) it necessarily operates in class A, ie average plate current won't change much from idle (=no signal) to full signal power output.
So in terms of working / wearing out the output tube, it doesn't make much difference whether the amp is pushing out high signal levels.
However, other factors may come into play, eg vibration from the speaker, massive voltage swings on the power tube's plate and, to a lesser extent, screen grid, which may tend to reduce the operational life of the tube (compared to just sitting there at idle or putting out low signal levels).

[Jazz P Bass]

O/k. A basic output section primer.

IF a small signal (low guitar, high volume of preamp) goes in to this power amp, the OUTPUT of the power amp will be low.

It is not being 'driven' hard.

Increase that input signal by any means & the power amp will be driven harder.
At the point where the power amp fully clips & square waves (ie: very high input signal) you are beating the bejeezus out of the power amp.
Can it take it?
Is it bad for the tubes?
That depends on the design. (how robust the individual components are)

Are we o/k with that?

[Justin Thomas]

It's all good till it blows up. There's absolutely no way to tell. Just enjoy the thing until it craps out, then fix, then repeat. Though, I understand why we should learn the theory of all this, I can't see a practical application, except on rare and irreplaceable vintage amps.

Justin

[Tom Phillips]

Juan - I would consider it an improvement for the MEF community and a personal favor if you were to delete or replace the photo that you used in post #35. There is no place for those thugs to be associated with anything MEF related.
Respectfully,
Tom

[R.G.]

Aside from the barbs, this thread hits some fundamentals. But not of what any of you really hit on.

The fundamental reason that there are engineers (note the little "e") is that as soon as it was recognized that technologies were great things to have, it became realized that it would be a Real Good Thing to have someone to ask whether this rope would hold a horse, or if the bridge would fall down if 100 people walked across it in lock step, or if this steam boiler would explode. Somebody had to be able to deal with the numbers and generate an answer that would survive in the real world.

The OP's question got so many variations of answers because it is unanswerable in that form. Is it OK to max an amp? If so, for how long? There is no way to answer that (in an informed and probably correct manner, at least. That's because some amps are designed to run flat-out, full-max, even overloaded forever, and some amps are designed to be used intermittently, and with varying duty cycles. The load/rest cycle is independent of the power level.

The answer to the OP is in the form of another question: was the amp *designed* to run full out, continuous duty, or was it designed to run a while and cool off, or never run at more than X% continuously?

All of these can and have been done, in guitar amps. Without knowing what guitar amp is being used, the question cannot be answered.

[Chuck H]

Aside from the barbs, this thread hits some fundamentals. But not of what any of you really hit on.

The fundamental reason that there are engineers (note the little "e") is that as soon as it was recognized that technologies were great things to have, it became realized that it would be a Real Good Thing to have someone to ask whether this rope would hold a horse, or if the bridge would fall down if 100 people walked across it in lock step, or if this steam boiler would explode. Somebody had to be able to deal with the numbers and generate an answer that would survive in the real world.

The OP's question got so many variations of answers because it is unanswerable in that form. Is it OK to max an amp? If so, for how long? There is no way to answer that (in an informed and probably correct manner, at least. That's because some amps are designed to run flat-out, full-max, even overloaded forever, and some amps are designed to be used intermittently, and with varying duty cycles. The load/rest cycle is independent of the power level.

The answer to the OP is in the form of another question: was the amp *designed* to run full out, continuous duty, or was it designed to run a while and cool off, or never run at more than X% continuously?

All of these can and have been done, in guitar amps. Without knowing what guitar amp is being used, the question cannot be answered.

Great observation on the matter. This shouldn't be ignored. I actually took the question differently. I interpreted that the OP wasn't really asking if he could crank the amp and guitar full time, he was asking if there was a significant difference between using the amps volume control with the guitar volume full up or cranking the amp and controlling output with the guitar volume. The answer is complex at that point because no real definitions of how hard the amp will actually be used were ever laid out. We all did the best we could to explain how the whole system works hoping to educate the OP enough that he could negotiate the variables. No joy in that however.

[JoeK]

Juan - I would consider it an improvement for the MEF community and a personal favor if you were to delete or replace the photo that you used in post #35. There is no place for those thugs to be associated with anything MEF related.
Respectfully,
Tom

Yep I don't want to censor reality but those guys don't need any more publicity. They need ridicule in a different media place. Regards Joe.