filter cap question

[Chuck H]

Now that the axial parts are being used more for PCB designs than PTP designs, I've noticed that the leads on CC resistors have become a lot shorter. Oh, how I hate that. Now I have to pay attention to lead length when I buy passives. What a PITA. Something else to go wrong when you order if you're not paying attention to every little detail.

It's not just CC's that have shorter leads. I stopped using CC's years ago. MF's also have pitifully short leads. Working with new resistors in some of my older amps I find that modern resistor leads are only JUST long enough without clipping to reach eyelet to eyelet with a small bend at the ends in some cases. But with component prices getting down into the dimes rather than dollars the manufacturers are no longer cutting pennies, they're cutting tenths of pennies.

[Justin Thomas]

I occasionally find myself having to use 2- or 3W resistors because they have long enough leads to do the job. Luckily, I don't use resistors as ghetto fuses, so the extra wattage isn't an issue. Space, on the other hand...

Justin

[Chuck H]

I remember when Mouser was out of Gilroy, Ca. (garlic capitol of the world ). At that time their catalog was about as thick as a magazine. Then they opened a distribution in Texas. Then they moved much of their operation there. Then they closed the Gilroy warehouse. By this time their catalog had grown to the size of a metropolitan phone book. They would send me three a year even though I only bought a few hundred dollars worth of parts a year from them. I had to call them on the phone to get them to stop sending me so much paper. I could have bricked a walkway with the damn things.

But I posted for a reason... What was it?.. Oh, yeah,

Hammond is a HUGE magnetics company that makes everything from the stupid guitar amp clone transformers all the way up to friggin room sized industrial transformers with so much EMF that migrating birds get lost. And they're still remarkably easy to get on the phone and talk to. I just can't say enough about their product or their service. But...

That's actually been my experience with any magnetics company. Heyboer built me three prototype OT's for about a hundred each and they were all different designs! I called Edcor with a request for one of their 220V primary models in 120V and THEY DID IT AT NO CHARGE and added it to their offerings later on the site.

I can only conclude that all magnetics company owners have good marriages and smoke some weed now and then. Or something like that. Because I really haven't had a problem with any of them and they're all more reasonable than their service could demand. And...

That's probably why a company like Mercury can come along and play hokey on the market. Much to their advantage all the exceptionally cool dudes that went before didn't feel inclined to take anyone for a ride. AND...

I've never bought a mercury transformer.

[Enzo]

A HR DeLuxe from Fender has about 100 resistors in it. Most 1/4 watt. That is just the one model Across the whole line, and maybe 10,000 units on popular models, Fender is buying millions of resistors. At those amounts resistors are well under a penny each.

Whatever parts they buy, if you save a penny per part over a million parts, you saved $10,000. That is not chump change.

Look at all the amps and other things like mixers and processors and effects, and see how many resistors need more than a half inch of lead length? If company X makes a million resistors, and saves 2 inches of wire on each by having 1/2" rather than 1-1/2" leads, they save 2 million inches of wire. That is over 30 miles of wire. Per million items. When you make billions of resistors, that is an incentive.

I don't know a lot about automated assembly, I suspect there is a minimum lead length for the tapes to hold parts conveniently for the pick and place machines. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the major factor in lead length rather than customers needing them long.

[bob p]

It's not just CC's that have shorter leads. I stopped using CC's years ago. MF's also have pitifully short leads. Working with new resistors in some of my older amps I find that modern resistor leads are only JUST long enough without clipping to reach eyelet to eyelet with a small bend at the ends in some cases. But with component prices getting down into the dimes rather than dollars the manufacturers are no longer cutting pennies, they're cutting tenths of pennies.

oh, I know they all have short leads today. but the CC are the only ones that I notice being shorter because I still have 80 year old CC resistors from the 1940s. my new resistors are MF and they're very short. but I don't have any old MF with long leads for reference, so I only complain about the CC. because everything is short, i find that i can't just trace the fender layouts because the resistors won't fit. i have to scale everything down.

2 million inches? 30 miles? holy cow!

[bob p]

Pondering the Imponderable

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB878509365953285000

[Enzo]

I do have some 50 plus year old resistors in my kit, and yes the leads are a lot longer.

I even have some old molded caps in stock, NOS, and they have even longer leads, much longer than the resistors. Similar to the old Black Beauty caps that were common in the 1950s. I assume them to be paper caps. In working on old juke box amps, I find caps like a 0.05uf 600v that are the size of a 12AX7. The modern ones in my drawer are the size of a Chiclet or at most a pair of garbonzo beans. The caps have to reach from tube to tube. The old leads made the part like 6 inches long, while my modern parts have short leads.

[dstrat]

shorter, and the leads are a LOT thinner too.. makes point to point nearly impossible.

[bob p]

PTP isn't impossible, but to build a PTP amp with new parts you have to pack everything in really tight. the days of the roomy layouts like you'd see in a 1930s radio are long gone.

I recently rebuilt a short wave set from the 30s. I had to use some new CC resistors with short leads, so I ended up splicing extra leads for length and covering them with spaghetti. I also had to replace a couple of those ginormous coupling caps. not being able to find big caps like Enzo's, I suggested PIO reproductions. $$$. the owner told me to use ODs. <sigh>. I really wanted to use axial caps to make everything look right, but he didn't care because he's not going to look inside. so I wasted my time obsessing over the lead splices.

the good news is that the radio works great. my friend uses it to listen to the BBC.

[bob p]

1936 RCA 8k before & after. my friend replaced the veneer on the top and found a Nipper statuette at Goodwill.

[Enzo]

Oh man, a Nipper is a real find.

In fairness, my old stock long lead caps could be worthless by now, I ought to fish them out and test them. Paper caps often don't last.

[soundmasterg]

Oh man, a Nipper is a real find.

In fairness, my old stock long lead caps could be worthless by now, I ought to fish them out and test them. Paper caps often don't last.

You could sell them on ebay for guitarists like a bunch of the hack amp techs do. I have new in plastic box black beauties among other old caps. I haven't tested them yet but if they are good I'll probably end up selling them on ebay as the new caps are perfectly fine and will likely be more reliable long term.

Greg

[Leo_Gnardo]

You could sell them on ebay for guitarists like a bunch of the hack amp techs do. I have new in plastic box black beauties among other old caps. I haven't tested them yet but if they are good I'll probably end up selling them on ebay as the new caps are perfectly fine and will likely be more reliable long term.

Greg

Enzo, what Greg said ^^^. You'd be susprized, buyers often don't care whether they're leaky or not. Black Beauties, Bumble Bees, Vitamin Q's & similar fetch prices to make it well worth the effort. It'll pay for a lot of Big Boy lunches with Wenzo. Sell them off to the True Believers and smile.

[soundmasterg]

Enzo, what Greg said ^^^. You'd be susprized, buyers often don't care whether they're leaky or not. Black Beauties, Bumble Bees, Vitamin Q's & similar fetch prices to make it well worth the effort. It'll pay for a lot of Big Boy lunches with Wenzo. Sell them off to the True Believers and smile.

Does a DC leaking cap matter that much in a guitar tone control where it is only shorting AC to ground? I am sure it doesn't matter as much in that application as it would in a tube amp.

Greg

[Enzo]

"Shorting AC to ground" is a gross simplification. It is an RC circuit. Sure it is often the voltage in a circuit that makes a leak. Caps may test fine at 20,30,50 volts but cannot handle 200v let alone their rated 400v. SO would they work in a guitar? Oh probably. But leakiness often goes hand in hand with ESR problems. Fortunately for you, considering how high the resistance of the tone pot might be, extra ESR might not matter much. After all the guitar innards are not remotely critical circuits.

As a practical matter, I have no reason to try to use an old leaky cap in a guitar. It is larger than modern parts, and since a common greenie cap for a guitar tone control costs a few cents, I just use a new one. Though I don't think that was your concern.