Neater Wiring - Cable Lacing

[R.G.]

I'm addicted to lacing all the cable runs in my construcion projects. It just makes them look so ... official ... somehow, and I find that the process of considering the lacing to be done makes me think about where the wires should run. That makes me actually think about running wires and improves the results.

The recent interior views of a Torres kit amp inspired me to post this. It serves as a GREAT bad example of interior wiring and how it should not be done. After I got through shuddering, I was inspired to post this.

Take a look at these links, no particular order.
https://makezine.com/2009/07/28/lost...-cable-lacing/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_lacing
http://www.dairiki.org/hammond/cable-lacing-howto/
http://archive.hnsa.org/doc/cabling/part5.htm

The last two are where the really good stuff is. Some of the links from wikipedia are also good.

You can get a 500yd spool of waxed nylon lacing braid on ebay for US$10 to US$20. My 500 yd spool will last me the rest of my life at current usage rates.

You can do this all by hand, but you can also make a lacing shuttle and/or puller for next to nothing out of popsicle sticks and wire to do really fancy work. There are professional tools for lacing available if you really get into it.

[catalin gramada]

This is what I have .

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...K4NgEBY5TpjZBa

[R.G.]

That's a good reference in general. I read somewhere that NASA prefers isolated clove-hitch-and -reef spot ties, but I never got to look inside a wiring cabinet on space equipment.

[R.G.]

I will pre-emptively mention the criticism of laced cable bundles - cross capacitance. Some will soon post that cable bundling increases cross capacitance. That's right, it does, as it forces wires to lie parallel. However, this also forces the designer to think about (and that ALWAYS hurts) what wires should not be near other wires. Just like being forced to exercise, this is good for you in the long run. :lol:

[Gingertube]

Guitar Amp example - the HiWatt 400

Wiring colours:
Green - grids
Yellow - anodes
Blue - Cathodes

Cheers,
Ian

[soundmasterg]

I used to work at Rodgers Instruments, and they make church organs. They were owned by Roland at the time. Anyway they did wire lacing with their harnesses. They had a peg board against the wall vertically and ran wires and lacing in a particular pattern around and through the nails and then tied it all off with the lacing before putting it into the organ. I worked in IT so I didn't get much of a chance to watch them in action, but it was interesting to see it. It makes for very nicely arranged wiring, but if you run the grid wires in parallel with other noisy wires then it could cause an issue, though Sunn amps don't seem to have too much trouble with it, and they were done that way. Maybe they aren't high enough gain to worry?

Greg

[Leo_Gnardo]

It makes for very nicely arranged wiring, but if you run the grid wires in parallel with other noisy wires then it could cause an issue, though Sunn amps don't seem to have too much trouble with it, and they were done that way. Maybe they aren't high enough gain to worry?

I've had a couple Sunn's where the main B+ was laced in with preamp wiring. Buzz, hum, yecch! I ran an entirely separate wire for the B+, arranged at some distance from the preamp. Simply clipped off the original B+ wire and grounded one end so it wouldn't be floating - this kept the bundle looking neat, rather than extracting the B+ lead & disturbing the nicely done bundle.

[eschertron]

Not to detract from the aesthetic of wire lacing - I do love the look! - but in my mind this presumes the builder wants to make more than one amp of the same design, otherwise the up-front cost (time maybe more than materials) of the wiring jig etc. seems extreme.

Lacing up in-chassis, however, might be a good alternative and a good design exercise. Being that I am pretty kludgy in terms of manual dexterity, I find it a "win" if I get the heater wiring (installed first) to lay snugly in the corners of the chassis, out of the way of what comes after. Of course, I haven't wired up any circuit boards Rogers-organ-size. That might make all the difference.

[tedmich]

Its a bit like wire bondage Eh

I'm pretty sure Dumble didn't do this because electrons need to be free right?



Is it easier to troubleshoot/fix?
I had thought Hiwatt founder David Reeves had a military background for his build style but I guess he learned it at Marconi Electronics and Mullard?

here is a HIWATT DR103 in the UK, gorgeous!!
https://i.imgur.com/8q8dECh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/RwI7AJy.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8s3ECEB.jpg

warning big files

[R.G.]

I've never done a nail-board, although I admire the preparedness of someone who does.

And as I mentioned, putting sensitive - especially grid - wires in bundles with wires that carry large signals is a prescription for noise pickup. If you're going to bundle and buss, you have to know what wires carry which signals and what the impedances are.

Or ask yourself - do you feel lucky?

[Old Tele man]

Originally, MILSPEC, harness lacing was done to mitigate wiring-induced fracturing of solder joints on military equipment due to vibration and movement; it strengthened and stiffened the wiring bundles as well as providing firm "fix" points for mechanical tie-downs.

[soundmasterg]

I've had a couple Sunn's where the main B+ was laced in with preamp wiring. Buzz, hum, yecch! I ran an entirely separate wire for the B+, arranged at some distance from the preamp. Simply clipped off the original B+ wire and grounded one end so it wouldn't be floating - this kept the bundle looking neat, rather than extracting the B+ lead & disturbing the nicely done bundle.

Most of the Sunns seemed to be ok with that setup, but there were some that had issues with it for sure. Some had trouble with the OT location too and would oscillate under certain conditions. Moving the OT a little would solve the issue but there isn't many places you can move it since it is so big!

Greg

[catalin gramada]

I've had a couple Sunn's where the main B+ was laced in with preamp wiring. Buzz, hum, yecch! I ran an entirely separate wire for the B+, arranged at some distance from the preamp. Simply clipped off the original B+ wire and grounded one end so it wouldn't be floating - this kept the bundle looking neat, rather than extracting the B+ lead & disturbing the nicely done bundle.

DC wiring have nothing in common with that by my knowledge. I used and use DC potential wires for screening signal traces at any hours of day, with one condition : to be a clean DC one. You problem is related not by DC wires by principle, but to the noisy heavy ripple running through I suppose.

[eschertron]

DC wiring have nothing in common with that by my knowledge. I used and use DC potential wires for screening signal traces at any hours of day, with one condition : to be a clean DC one. You problem is related not by DC wires by principle, but to the noisy heavy ripple running through I suppose.

You're right. The DC component is not an issue. I would expect the first node voltage on a big amp (like the ones discussed here) to have a ripple voltage amplitude bigger than the heaters, with a much noisier harmonic spectrum. A smaller amp, maybe not so much.

[SoulFetish]

I've had a couple Sunn's where the main B+ was laced in with preamp wiring. Buzz, hum, yecch! I ran an entirely separate wire for the B+, arranged at some distance from the preamp. Simply clipped off the original B+ wire and grounded one end so it wouldn't be floating - this kept the bundle looking neat, rather than extracting the B+ lead & disturbing the nicely done bundle.

I like many of the old Sunns, but the ones I've worked on have a problem with quiescent noise (sceptre and solaris come to mind). I suspect that much of this is due to ground loops. I would like to really take some time and track down the source and come up with a ready, serviceable fix for these.