Illinois Capacitors?

[tbryanh]

I have heard tha Illinois Capacitors are bad. Is this true?

[PRNDL]

>> I have heard that Illinois Capacitors are bad. Is this true?

The short answer is "no".

The long answer is that they are less expensive when compared with other caps, and most likely follow the "price vs. quality" trade-off, which in engineering terms means lower mean time between failure (MTBF) and higher failure rates.

This can also mean that the short answer is "yes", if you prefer higher priced / higher quality caps.

[Alex R]

Handy to have the 500v rating, as opposed to the more usual 450v.

They fit these to Fender Hot Rods, and I often am replacing them to stop oscillations caused by their failure. But there are a lot of those amps out there running fine.

[stokes]

I find them to be inferior to a Sprague or F&T.Though the name implies "Made in the USA" they aint.Taiwan,I think.

[Enzo]

COnsidering that no cap is hand made by expert artisans, I am not too concerned where the machine sits that spits them out. I have used them for years and cannot recall any excess failures of that brand compared to any other. If you detect any subtle tonal differences between brands of caps, then by all means use the ones you like the sound of.

I tend to take advice like "X is bad" with a grain of salt. It reminds me of "Marshalls suck" that you might hear on Harmony Central or something. Not very useful.

[trevorus]

With a name like Illinois, it can't be good. I should know, I live there...

I haven't noticed much of a higher failure rate, but they are used a lot on less expensive tube amps.

[Enzo]

The expensive amps wouldn't be caught dead using something common. Got no mojo, also doesn't give you the opportunity to talk up your special parts.

[Alf]

And what is true about the rumour that they have a higher ESR ?

In TUT 3 they are referred to as being inferior .

Alf

[stokes]

In my experience the Illinois or any of the cheaper Asian brands dont sound as good as the Sprague or F&T's,especially in high gain amps like the Boogie MK's,but I do prefer them in all amps.The overall response is much tighter particularly in the bass.To me the most important component in an amp is the power supply,and is the heart and soul of how the rest of the amp performs,why not use the best parts available.I also gotta disagree with you on the fact that it makes no difference "where the machine sits that spits them out",Enzo,not looking for an argument there,I know you have a lot of experience,and I respect your opinions,but I think quality control in Taiwan just aint up to par,and I've had better experience using the American and European caps,seeing more premature failures with the "lesser caps".I realize a lot of manufacturers use the Illinois and other less expensive caps,but I think they are just balancing profit and "good enough".Just my opinion,and you know what they say about opinions.

[Enzo]

Hey, I am just posting opinions myself, I'm no cap expert. My point was that the machine that makes caps can be anywhere. I recall some pretty low rent parts made in USA from years ago. A low tolerance assembly line is a low tolerance line, no matter where you put it, and vice versa. POint being, forget where it is made and concentrate on its performance. I get weary of people looking at country of origin and no further. "Oh, it is Chinese, it must be crap." Not so. Some are, some are not. Not aware of any on the electronics parts industry offhand. but there are presently some USA products that are just cheap crap. SOme T-shirts come to mind. The ones from BanglaDesh are much nicer than the USA ones in some cases. I think they are cynical enough to think slapping USA on second clas goods will sell anyting to the rednecks. If one brand uses a better dielectric material, it doesn't matter where they do it.

The IC people don't send a letter to some Taiwan factory and say "make a bunch of caps and slap our name on them, thanks." They spec the materials and processes. If their "good enough" is not for you, so be it.

The original post was "Illinois Capacitors are bad. Is this true?"

I'd say no to that, even if I preferred something else. Just as I use D'Addario strings instead of Fender strings. That doesn't make Fender strings "bad."

Your favored caps may well sound better, and if presented with them side by side I might even agree with you, I have an open mind. But I have had no incidence of higher falure rates in the IC caps.

[tbryanh]

Do the IC caps need to be formed before their used?

What about other electrolytics?

[stokes]

Do the IC caps need to be formed before their used?

What about other electrolytics?

Again,there is some debate on this subject,but I like to form all electros.

[dai h.]

fwiw some of the "boutique" amp chassis here show IC filters:

http://spinoo.free.fr/projetG5/Images%20Amplis/

[Enzo]

I think we can fairly say that the IC caps need forming just as much as any other new cap needs forming. If you believe in forming, then do them. if you think forming is mojo, then they don't need it any more than any other cap does.

[stokes]

fwiw some of the "boutique" amp chassis here show IC filters:

http://spinoo.free.fr/projetG5/Images%20Amplis/

Yes,Mesa uses them for the 2X220uf in series for the main or input cap.This is exactly a case where I've had a guy bring me a fairly new MKIV to change the Illinois for F&T's and there was a definate improvement in the overall response of the amps tone.Its my feeling that Mesa uses the Illinois in this position and Spragues for the rest of the filters as a matter of convenience/profit margin or as I said earlier just being "good enough".To me the F&T's are a better choice,but like Enzo says it doesnt make the IC "bad" necessarilly.