Clean headroom vs Master Volumes vs Power Scaling vs Attenuators? Finding the sweet spots.

[walkman]

Hi all

What are your experiences or tips designing amps to have the greatest flexibility or range of sweet spots.
How do you design to get great sounds at bedroom levels through say a 10” speaker and also an external 4x12?

Do you for example design so that it will sound great on 11 in to a full stack, then tack on a VVR or power scale, and rely on the player to use his volume controls on the guitar.
Or alternatively design for tone at bedroom / small stage levels and rely on the player to find the sweet spot and not crank it to its ready to take off with out an inch of headroom and to loud for is small cab.

Some amps seem to cover the territory I’m interested in are the Cornell Romney or Carr Mercury or Skylark , though I have not played either of them and would probably be just as happy with a peavy classic 20 / 30. The classic 50 4x10 illustrates my point that doesn’t really sound good till you crank it to max, but then sound awesome especially with effects in the loop.

Then you get Yamaha THR 5/10 or a blackstar HT5 that while both very useful for practice and demo recording sound like they ‘sound like guitar amps’ if you know what I mean.
In the same way that many YouTube gear reviewers or instructional players sound the same ( and to an extent play the same) to that ‘ideal’ amp tone from their Ox or Two Notes speaker cabs.Nothing wrong with that at all, but would you use a cab emulation to prototype or test your amp design for finding the sweet spot for real world in the room sounds ( which room?)


That’s a bit of a rambling question / train of thought so please let me know ] what works for you in terms of approaching amp design or tweaking known circuits (eg Champ or deluxe or plexi etc)

I guess the answer there is no one answer, and is somewhere in the middle of the extremes. and also depends on who the amp is for.

What works for you.....

[Chuck H]

Well, like you already said, the question is too nebulous for an actual answer. There are popular amps on the market at many wattages for good reason.

This should help... The most popular amps are 1x12 combo's at 50W with circuits based on classic clean tones PLUS channel switching for dirty tones and a master volume. This gets the job done. Most small to medium gigs as well as bedroom level.

Does that mean that as players we don't want/need other designs? Of course not. The above design is just a good balance of pros and cons. Different power levels have a different affect on acoustic feedback and some players simply need a 100W Marshall 1959 cranked up to get it. The above example won't do that. Some players want the "whole amp" overdrive for it's characteristics but don't want to scare the neighbors so they go for a 5W to 20W amp that they can crank up. The above example won't do that either. Now and then there are designs that have some wattage switch features or VVR, etc. Of course there will always be pros and cons to their relative effectiveness for the goal in mind. So...

Maybe your question is actually something like 'What designs do almost everything?' And the answer would be none. This doesn't even take into consideration any differences in tonal characteristics. "How much headroom" is desirable is often specific to genre or style so that's out the door too. And again, there have been amp designs that have attempted switching between higher headroom and more sag and compression. Attempts to make an amp that does two opposing things most often result in a compromise that doesn't do either well enough. I think this is why the old classic designs persist so well. Our effects, guitars, the pickups that go into those guitars, the speakers we put into the amps, the cabinet designs, the amplifier circuits themselves and most important our personal tonal preferences and familiarities all evolved together. And we, as players, can be very particular about it. Enough so that amps trying to be a Fender clean AND a Marshall dirty are going to be called out as not sufficient for either. Which most often they are not. Nor will there ever be an amp that is both a Fender Twin Reverb for clean jazz tones in a big room and a Fender 5e3 for dirty blues at a small club in the same box.

To answer another part of the question, when I design an amp I don't try to get opposing design features like more or less headroom or high and low wattage. I simply try to maximize the most desirable features for whatever genre such an amp is used for. So if I'm building a clean amp I try to make it loud and clean. I guess I do try to make sure such an amp goes gracefully into any overdrive too. Something that I don't think the Twin Reverb does very well. But that's just an opinion. Ted Nugent would probably disagree.

As for how to make a loud amp quiet, I like attenuators with reactive loads. Though I've never built or used an amp with VVR so my perspective is limited. I think for uber gain and metal tones you can't beat a good high gain preamp and a master volume.

And finally, I'll repeat some sentiments that have been stated here and elsewhere many times. Stories about pro players using rigs very different from their usual and still sounding like themselves abound. Enzo related a story about Eric Clapton going into a studio where they asked him what amp he wanted to use from their limited supply and he said something like 'Just give me an amp. I'll get a tone out of it.' And how many great players, when you actually listen to their tone and not their abilities actually have a good tone? There are some to be sure, but in my observation there are a lot of great tracks recorded with mediocre tone that sound fabulous regardless. Because a player can hear and feel the musical aspects of whatever their instrument (guitar and amp in this case) is offering and then play to those strengths. It's fine to have preferences. But musicality, and therefor tone (headroom, compression, attack, note separation, dynamics, etc.) is in the fingers.

[Helmholtz]

Something that I don't think the Twin Reverb does very well. But that's just an opinion.

Couldn't agree more.

Especially SF and UL Twins. Even emphasized by JBL speakers.

[walkman]

Thanks Chuck for your well though out reply.