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best options for a clean 12V DC filament supply for 2 x 12AX7s to retrofit my existing amp

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  • best options for a clean 12V DC filament supply for 2 x 12AX7s to retrofit my existing amp

    I've had some breakthrough success lately in finding and fixing some persistent noises in my amp that has been an issue since it's birth. I've also swapped out the OT back and forth between the Heyboer I had custom built and an edcore. I finally settled on the Heyboer for no good reason other than, they both sound fine and I don't want to replace the output transformer any more.
    The amp is really getting close to being left alone so it can be played and judged a success or scrap.
    With some of the more distracting issues which were previously causing the instability out of the way and solved, I was still getting some 60 cycle hum and a little buzz at idle. I've heard worse, in other high gain amps, certainly, but I wanted to see if I could knock it down.
    It for sure was being generated in the first two tubes, because the balanced part of the amp is dead quiet with those pulled. I was pretty certain that it was heater noise coupling through, so I set up to run them on a DC circuit and see if there was any improvement. I disconnected the AC feed to V1 and V2, and connected them in parallel to a 6V Lantern battery, which was a total waste of time, considering that even though I bought it a day earlier, it was expired in january and totally trashed.
    I needed to improvise, and began to rummage around our benches for a wallwart supply. Obviously, my chances of finding 12V DC were going to be much better than finding 6.3V DC , so I rewired the 12AX7s for 12V heater operation (which is easier anyway) and connected them to an adjustable voltage wallwart supply. I set it for 12V, checked the wiring and tested the voltage to make sure it was built correctly and working right.
    I powered it back on, and waited for the amp to warm up. The noise I was hearing earlier was nearly all gone, and resulted in a pretty dramatic improvement.
    The obvious solution was to run those tubes off a DC heater supply. Using 4 schottky diodes, I constructed a bridge rectifier with a 5600uF high quality cap, 1.5R dropper, and a final 10000uF filter which supplied the two tubes with 6.2V DC.... and it was a disaster. Probably noisier than the AC heater arrangement, and buzzier too.
    I figure that the 12V DC heater was a better arrangement to start with, but fact that it was isolated from the existing AC heaters was also helpful.
    Therefore, what suggestions do you have that would meet the criteria of clean, isolated 12V (12.6V) DC and is reasonably small enough to install as a retrofit. I do have some space on the top of the chassis for a separate filament transformer for a linear supply, but a switching supply will give me the benefit of more options. so I'm open to both
    ​​​​​​​
    If I have a 50% chance of guessing the right answer, I guess wrong 80% of the time.

  • #2
    Why not use the same type of wallwart?

    BTW, did you try a humdinger with the AC heaters?

    Using 4 schottky diodes, I constructed a bridge rectifier with a 5600uF high quality cap, 1.5R dropper, and a final 10000uF filter which supplied the two tubes with 6.2V DC.... and it was a disaster.
    I assume a grounding problem. E.g. the heater winding can no longer have a ground reference, when using a bridge rectifier with grounding one side of the DC.
    Last edited by Helmholtz; 05-24-2021, 02:41 PM.
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    • #3
      Originally posted by SoulFetish View Post
      ...clean, isolated 12V (12.6V) DC and is reasonably small enough to install as a retrofit...
      Bridge rectifier with 4 x 1N4004, cap 2200uF, IC 7806 or 7812; transformer on choice
      Click image for larger version  Name:	48ee3168da03f19a007d924e05d74065.jpg Views:	0 Size:	19.1 KB ID:	932804
      1)
      MB first (input) tube is heated with DC voltage.
      Click image for larger version

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      Last edited by vintagekiki; 05-24-2021, 07:36 PM. Reason: 1)
      It's All Over Now

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      • #4
        for high gain amps, elevated heaters are a very good idea!

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        • #5
          Yeh its often not as simple as "if this, then that". Your first faultfinding effort just indicated it was likely heater related, but going straight to a brute force DC heater supply off the same transformer as used by the rest of the amp can definitely be 'one step forwards, but two steps back'.

          Typically the 3 initial options to try are to (a) tube swap, (b) use a tuned humdinger (ie. a pot), (c) DC elevate the heater supply. Tube swapping is important, as it is easy for some tubes to have poor insulation between heater and cathode (and that also relates to why point (c) may show some benefit). Option (b) tries to null any hum that comes from your wiring layout of heater wires near input stage grids - that can be worse nowadays as the B+ supply would use ss diodes and that often couples noise in to the heater voltage, which then gets over in to the signal path.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by trobbins View Post
            Yeh its often not as simple as "if this, then that". Your first faultfinding effort just indicated it was likely heater related, but going straight to a brute force DC heater supply off the same transformer as used by the rest of the amp can definitely be 'one step forwards, but two steps back'.

            Typically the 3 initial options to try are to (a) tube swap, (b) use a tuned humdinger (ie. a pot), (c) DC elevate the heater supply. Tube swapping is important, as it is easy for some tubes to have poor insulation between heater and cathode (and that also relates to why point (c) may show some benefit). Option (b) tries to null any hum that comes from your wiring layout of heater wires near input stage grids - that can be worse nowadays as the B+ supply would use ss diodes and that often couples noise in to the heater voltage, which then gets over in to the signal path.
            I appreciate the advice. Firstly, I can assure you that the first thing I did was swap out tubes, plus elevated the supply. I did not try to null them at the grids yet, so I'll try that
            If I have a 50% chance of guessing the right answer, I guess wrong 80% of the time.

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            • #7
              Have we answered the question of what ground refernce is being used for the heater string?
              Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Enzo View Post
                Have we answered the question of what ground refernce is being used for the heater string?
                It is currently connected to the 0V, main star ground node.
                If I have a 50% chance of guessing the right answer, I guess wrong 80% of the time.

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                • #9
                  With AC heaters a humdinger pot is always superior to grounding the heater winding.

                  With DC heating the question is more about how than where, as you can ground either the AC side or the DC side but not both.
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                  • #10
                    Doesn't answer my question. I assumed a ground reference was connected to ground. I wondered if you connected one side of the heaters to ground, or had a pair of resistors ala Fender or a hum pot ala Helmz., or some other.
                    Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

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                    • #11

                      Centertap grounded, connected to Main reservoir cap Ground near the transformers.
                      If I have a 50% chance of guessing the right answer, I guess wrong 80% of the time.

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                      • #12
                        One issue is that your DC is DC with respect to itself, but floats with respect to circuit ground. Try a cap of at least 1000uF from your +12vdc to ground.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by markr14850 View Post
                          One issue is that your DC is DC with respect to itself, but floats with respect to circuit ground. Try a cap of at least 1000uF from your +12vdc to ground.
                          huh?
                          If I have a 50% chance of guessing the right answer, I guess wrong 80% of the time.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by SoulFetish View Post

                            huh?
                            I was referring to your implementation of the bridge rectifier for DC voltage. Think about what the relationship is between system ground (from transformer center tap) and your 0V DC after the rectifier. If you look at the Mesa schematic that vintagekiki posted, the 39ohm resistors (and probably C1&2) are there to try to address this. My preference is just a single big cap, but something needs to be done.

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                            • #15
                              See last paragraph here:

                              http://www.valvewizard.co.uk/heater.html
                              - Own Opinions Only -

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