BF Bandmaster replace e-lytics or keep unmolested?

[Groover]

I just opened up my BF Bandmaster (ab763) head and aside from the handle and AC cord it looks untouched, including all the electrolytic filter caps and cathode bypass caps.

I know from a functional standpoint those should be replaced, but from a collectability standpoint I am wondering if I should just leave it alone. That makes it more of an ornament rather than a functioning amp though, and I'd like to be able to use it.

How does the vintage amp market react to updated caps in an amp?

[JoeM]

Personally, I wouldnt want an amp I cant play on. I'd recap it and save all the original caps in a plastic bag if I'd ever sell it. I'd also replace the AC cord with a 3 prong, if it hasnt already been replaced with one.

[olddawg]

I have a 1963 Tremolux with two original cabinets that is bone stock. Nothing has ever been done to it to my knowledge except replacement of the output tubes. I was going to recap it and replace the cord but I have never had a problem with it since I usually use a transmitter when I use the amp. I guess it might sound a little better with a recap but it seems to be fine as is. It is extremely quiet with no hiss, hum, or pops. It is responsive and loud. I've had other old amps that worked perfectly well as is. I have had others that were a mess. I think it might be a good idea to evaluate old amps on an individual basis and adopt a less is more attitude.

[mac1amps]

It always bugs me how so many "expert" techs will ALWAYS tell you that electrolytics "just HAVE TO go" if they're any more than 10-years old! Well, I've been a tube amp specialist since the early 70's, and I've serviced MANY amps, still with their original supply and cathode by-pass capacitors, which still work perfectly fine!! Sure, there are plenty of amps out there that WILL need their electrolytics replaced, but it is quite common for me to service [for instance] an older Fender with it's original Mallory's, and they are still working great. No excessive hum, no excessive "ripple" on the signal, even after hours of operation. I can also recall a few times when I had replaced the original caps on an amp (giving the "just HAVE TO go" techy's opinion a "run for the money"), and the new caps made no improvement whatsoever........On the other hand, there were some manufacturers, IMO, that used certain brands of capacitors that did have a tendency to fail much sooner (the caps that Gibson amps used in the 60's comes to mind). In those cases, I WOULD be more apt to replace the supply & bias caps just to be safe. As a vintage amp tech, I always LIKE to be able to keep the amp as original as possible, so if the amp works quietly, and is still "stable" after a number of hours operation, why change them?? Then again, if the amp IS showing signs of excessive hum and/or ripple, it would be quite foolish NOT to replace them, and take an otherwise fine amp "out of commission".

[MWJB]

I would say change the caps, before they change themselves & possibly take something else with them, leaving you mid set in a cloud of smoke & no way of finishing a gig.

If the amp is just for home/practice use then that's going to be les of a worry, but usually 40yr old e-caps sound dull & mushy, even if there's no hum & popping etc.

If you think that preserving the caps will greatly increase the resale value, sell it and buy a cheaper amp to use, then go on a holiday with the difference :-).

[pdf64]

Generally if the main B+ caps look ok under close critical inspection, the amp sounds and performs ok (maybe also quickly electrically swapping the 1st reservoir cap for a same spec new one and measuring ripple), then it's reasonable to leave them in.
If the bias supply cap/s are being run over their rated voltage then I'll change them on the precautionary principle, even given the above.
A few months ago I repaired a Watkins Westminster from 1961, no sound due to several o/c coupling caps (black cat type), but the can cap was fine, so I was happy to send it out intact. Peter.

[jrfrond]

I like to keep vintage amps as original as possible too, as ANOTHER old amp-repair warhorse, BUT..... I always warn customers about potential trouble spots and impending reliability issues, then leave it up to them. ALL electrolytics in a vintage guitar amp are destined to fail at some point. Hey, even NEW ones can fail! However, the heat and balls-to-the-wall voltage operation of filter caps in most vintage tube amps do make them an accident waiting to happen. It is just a question of when. It is then up to the customer as to whether they want originality or piece of mind/reliability. I have many clients who take this gear on the road, and I ALWAYS highly-suggest "bombproofing" their amps. In a typical BF, that involves filter caps, bias cap, bias and rectifier diodes (if any), cathode bypass caps and plate resistors (always with carbon comps). Are ALL of these absolutely necessary? Maybe not, but if you are in front of a concert crowd with your favorite amp, it's nice to have piece of mind. I DO agree that cap replacement is not always necessary, but like our own lives, cap life is just a matter of time.

[Enzo]

I once bought a Sears Die Hard battery for my car. The Die Hard was a "five year" battery. if you had a five year battery in your car, would you change it on its fifth birthday even if it still worked fine? My five year battery worked ten more years after the first five, and would have continued working had I not retired the car for other reasons.

I don;t believe in automatic blanket policies like always change all the caps. if they work, they work. Will they fail? eventually. When? Next week, or maybe 20 more years from now. Who knows.

Filter caps mostly tend to dry out, or piss their innards on your chassis. WHile they do occasionally short out, mostly they just stop filtering, so the amp gets hummy, or some instability creps in or whatever. Point being, is a shorted cap will probably blow a fuse at worst, and a dried out one won;t hurt much. Oh a dry bias filter will leave your powr tubes running hot as well as humming.

SO I don;t see the urgency that some express when this topic comes up.

As to originality, I'm all for it, but if the amp doesn't work, what's the point? I always return the old parts with a repair anyway, so in a collectible case, bag them up as suggested above, and tell the customer to keep them with the amp for any future anal collector.

[melvin]

I almost said when this thread started, "I don't think this forum is the best place to get an accurate answer. Because all the reply's are gonna be from players or techs." But being new to the forum I was unsure what might transpire.

Well it seems to be so; as a player I would not want my fuse to blow in the middle of the best rock-posturing ever (it might make me wonder what the hell I'm even doing up on stage, or wearing make-up for that matter), and as a tech I think the paper covers they put on the outside of electrolytic caps are rather cute (why don't they do that anymore?). But I think the real questions are this:

Are there any anal collectors out there who can tell us if a black-face Fender Bandmaster head without the original handle or ac cord is ever going to be worth more with the rest of its original parts than without?

And of course the other question being, is the price difference worth not playing the thing now?

[Sweetfinger]

Are there any anal collectors out there who can tell us if a black-face Fender Bandmaster head without the original handle or ac cord is ever going to be worth more with the rest of its original parts than without?

And of course the other question being, is the price difference worth not playing the thing now?

The Bandmaster is not one of the more collectible BF amps- it is actually close to the bottom. Collectors like the combos with reverb. I think the only less collectible BF amp is probably the Bassman. Have a look at the electrolytics. if they're bubbling or popped, replace 'em.

[jrfrond]

One of the reasons I inform customers about their vintage filter caps in this fashion is that there has been more than several occasions over the years where amps have left the shop and come back within the warranty period (60-days) with bad filter caps, and now you have a customer service issue to deal with. For those who aren't in the business, you need to know that just about everyone who walks through the door of a repair shop feels that they are going to get screwed in one fashion or another. A return repair, for WHATEVER reason, means the same to the customer, whether it is the same failure mode or not. If I explain this to the customer, and list it on their invoice, then we are very clear about it in the future. Will the caps give up? I don't know! When will they give up? I don't know that either. I don't have a crystal ball (and if I did, I'd be in a more lucrative field!). However, it IS possible and even probable, so I feel it is best to at least furnish the information to cover our asses from a business perspective. And for the touring musician, it really IS a genuine consideration in terms of reliability insurance.

[guitician]

The environment the electrolytic caps are placed in by design has a lot to do with how well they will last in a tube amp. I've seen an amp with a 5U4GB placed right next to a "Twist-loc" type can. And guess what!...the cap was bad. Other amps that set the caps away from sources of heat are more likely to survive.