Can you ID this speaker?

[cagamp1]

The stamps on the cone are Utah codes. It gives the model and cone recipe. It is hard to decifer old codes and you can't really find good information on most manufacturers. I don't think that most cones have built in dates on codes because they usually come from third party makers who just produce and don't keep good records. It is like this, you have to know someone who knew someone who made or distributed those parts to find out information.

[pchilson]

Some more pics...

[ron vogel]

Yeah, that speaker belongs in a museum!

If you want the Jensen P12R sound, but dont want to spend the obscene money for an original there is an option. I go though a lot of old electronics for my ebay store...and have seen and tried a bunch of vintage speakers. Magnavox made speakers for Wurlitzer back in the late '50s, and they are killer. The baskets look different, but the cone/sound are almost identical to the P12R's, and very efficient. I'd offer you one, but the only one I currently have is in my amp...and you can't have it!

I see them pop up on the 'bay from time to time, so keep an eye out...they are bargains, and are usually in good shape. I find tons of great speakers between '58 to '62, they knew how to make them right...after '65 it's a crapshoot...and most of the organ speakers suitable for guitar use were of the CTS variety.

I'll spam you with what I have to offer right now, but sincerely...if you can find any old wurli/mag's...snatch 'em up!
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Here are some pics of what they look like:

[Chuck H]

Ahhh!!! Don't give that kind of info out. Those old Magnavox speakers are made with the same "hide" glue and paper formers as any other's of the era. Very easy to blow up if you push 'em because the materials get brittle with age. If the info leaks people will be buying them up and blowing them up until they're all in need of reconing.

Just as well I suppose. There only going to get more fragile as the get older so we ought to use 'em while we can.

I wonder how the old Magnavox's would sound with a Jensen recone? Are the magnet diameters the same?

[nashvillebill]

When did speaker manufacturers change to more durable glue? I'm asking because I have a JBL D140F from around 1971 that I was thinking of using.

[Chuck H]

Good question, and I'd also be interested in the skinny on this. But... I would guess that more permanent, elastic and heat resistant glues and materials have been available since the sixties. Just that most MFG's didn't use them because they were expensive. I would think that your JBL is made with materials akin to hi fi and home stereo gear of the time. So, probably used cutting edge materials of the time for speaker construction and is fine sitting on a shelf. But that's just a guess.

[ron vogel]

I don't know about that. I find a lot of speakers between '65+ completely torn up, and earlier ones in better shape. I think that partly has to do with the paper for the cone though...seems like the 65 and up dry up and disintegrate more readily.

Although, many of the '70s speakers I've run across were in fantastic shape...some like new. Never messed with many of them though.

[cagamp1]

Companies were transitionaing to a lot of new technologies in the sixties so you will find old and new materials being used. JBL was using cement type dry adhesives, so Bill, your D140's should be good. I have to talk to my speaker tech and get the skinny on the horse glue.

[nashvillebill]

Thanks guys!

[Chuck H]

Just guessing but... I think it's possible that if there IS a tendancy for MFG'd product speakers (as used in console audio gear and guitar amps) from the 60's to be less durable than those from the 50's it could be that they were simply NOT as durable. Perhaps a trend in cheaping out on materials for speakers started in the 60's. I do know that a company like JBL wouldn't have used cheap paper formulas for cones or hide glue so though it was a guess I am fairly certain that almost any JBL product won't suffer the same atrophe over such a short time. Jensen (from the late 50's to early 70's) OTOH did use cheap paper formulas and hide glue (and paper formers, stamped frames, etc.). They were made as cheaply as possible using materials that were inexpensive and /or simplified manufacture. They were products aimed at "jobbers" and industry who were also looking to save on materials. There's not room for many top players in any line of business and for speakers in this arena I think JBL was it at the time (and Fane on the other side of the pond I suppose). All other MFG'd speakers would have been in competition with each other and trying to compete on price and performance, but not quality, because that niche was already filled and it wouldn't have been financially viable to try unseating JBL from that position.

Just rambling and speculating.

[guitician]

I'll vouch for the Magnavox console speakers. I had one of those P12R type speakers in my M-12 and it sounded Killer...untill it started to buzz really bad. There's something about those super thin, tight as a drum head cones that just sings. Yeah, I though that the Utah was a recone by how black the cone looked, but then I saw the rest of the pics, and if it's a recone, it was done a long time ago.

[tubessence]

On the subject of glue?

Not to change the subject, but I've got a 15" Altec that dates to 1957 and was wondering about the glue they used? The speaker sounds great, should I retire it?

[Chuck H]

Nah, keep using it. Altec was one of a few companies at the top of the heap way back when (as was JBL). I'll guess they used top notch materials. Retiring it makes it useless since it's not an especially collectible speaker. I'm not sure if there's a recone kit for it though. You might look into that. Smoke 'em if you got 'em.

[tubessence]

Yeah, that's what I thought. It hasn't blown up yet.

[guitician]

Looks like an Altec 515. It has been reconed, by the WH code cone stamp. Probably has lots of life left in it. Why is the glue an issue? Are you thinking of coating the surround?