Original 1958 Champ - What do I do

[xroadie_jim]

I recently purchased a nice tweed champ. All original tweed covering, grill cloth, leather handle. Minor staining on the tweed with a bit of rust on the control panel. The serial number C-06XXX is stamped on the bottom (tube side) of the chassis, its got the original date coded speaker and transformers. All the capacitors are original which brings me to the point of this post. The amp sounds fantastic as it sits, and I have other amps I play. In other words it won't get a lot of playing time, can I leave it as is? Or will the caps started leaking sometime soon. I just would like to not change anything if I don't need to. It has the Lupe build tape on it, when I look at the solder joints I just can't imagine touching them. And yes it still has the two prong gray cord. Thanks in advance for any advice... Jim

[The Dude]

My $.02. If it aint broke, don't fix it. The only thing I would change is the power cord. Plugging into an ungrounded amp is just unsafe.

[Gtr_tech]

It may sound "good" now, but I guarantee the original filter caps are electrically leaky already. Leaking does not denote the rubber end bursting, that is called venting. They are dried out and not doing the job as well as they should. I would recap it as soon as you can. Capacitors (electrolytic) are like tires, belts, and hoses on a car....they will only last so long. When's the last time you saw a car from the 50s with the original tires that still hold air? Change them out and don't look back. Change the cathode bypass caps in the output section and preamp as well. The amp will thank you....

[Justin Thomas]

I agree with all the above, and would put the speaker away for safekeeping, too... but that's just me, since I like to run tiny amps wide open. Enjoy the amp for exactly what it is and don't try to turn it into something it's not. Happy blasting!

Justin

[teletwanger48]

Not recapping at least the power section could cost you a transformer as well as the caps. Ask me how I know that.. lol. anyway, I agree the caps are maintenance items. If you don't feel comfortable, find a really good amp tech with lots of experience with vintage instruments and pay them to do the job. Not sure what you paid, but whatever, it is an investment and you want to protect that investment. Take the old caps and put them in a plastic bag and hang on to them.

[Gtr_tech]

Yea....so some vintage lunatic cork sniffer can...well....sniff them
Oohhh....smells VINTAGE! O-kaaayyy....come to the shop someday when I'm replacing a couple hundred SMT caps. The reek of those will stop you in yer tracks.

[teletwanger48]

I bet if he made a recording right now.. and then let you replace all the caps.. then made another recording... he would kiss your feet. The amp would sound much better.. and last a lot longer..

[xroadie_jim]

Thank you all...

I bet if he made a recording right now.. and then let you replace all the caps.. then made another recording... he would kiss your feet. The amp would sound much better.. and last a lot longer..

Ahhh a post from the "Show Me State" I left the state of "Misery" 25 yrs ago! I am sure that you are correct. I believe if you look at the last part of my post you will see that I appreciate the amp for its historical significance as well as its sound. I don't want a museum piece (or what is know as a trailer queen in the car world) I just want to preserve as much of its originality as I can. I do have a 5F1 clone (? - the only thing remotely "clone" like is the circuit) that I can beat and abuse!

[Jazz P Bass]

Personally, I would leave it just the way it is.

[teletwanger48]

If you feel the value will be depreciated if you change caps, what will the value be when they crap out? Not a question 'if' but 'when' and being that old, their life is shorter than a death row inmate eating his last meal. If they take the tranny, that is even more significant.. as well as more expensive.

30 years ago, you could get he actual transfromer as a replacement. Now you can get a 'made to spec' transformer... not as good as having a real 58 transformer.. but better than being broken.

Amps will fail sooner or later. Just like cars, the better then maintenance, the longer the life. Caps are a maintenance item, sort of like a tune-up in a car. Think a 57 chevy has the original plugs or air cleaner in it?

[The Dude]

I'm not here to start an argument, and you can take this for what it's worth. I appreciate all of the above points of view. For me, however, I fail to see how a properly fused amp could have its output transformer killed by caps going open. Grant it, anything is possible, but this seems highly unlikely. I also think you'd start to hear hum and/or distortion if the caps were starting to dry out long before any significant damage was done. If you want to change the caps, go ahead. It certainly won't hurt anything.

[teletwanger48]

I understand what you are saying.. but... I have acutally had that happen to me on a 1965 Super Reverb. I bought the amp new and this was about 32 years later. I had changed output tubes several years before. The amp sounded great.. all of sudden a puff of smoke and a burnt smell.. took it to the amp tech and he quoted me about 450 for an original tranny ( all the right codes and everything correct for the super) and a recap job and of course general adjustments..

He offered me a super deal on a trade that put cash in my pocket and put me in tweed Blues Deville with 4x10s. I had two problems.. lack of cash and dire need for an amp right now.. and so I traded.. probably about the best i could have done at the time.. oh, well, the good old days...

[Enzo]

But that same cap failure can also happen on a two year old amp. As a warranty center, I have to replace shorted caps from time to time.

Dead short on the B+ usually blows fuses.

As Dude mentions, in my experience, the old e-caps usually fade to nothing as they dry out, not so much fail to short. In my opinion, leaving the old caps in there is going to see them slowly aging into oblivion, but I don't see it as a threat to the amp so much as a threat to tone.

[Gtr_tech]

Well for a vintage piece, I'd be concerned with the cap(s) venting and spewing corrosive crap all over the place. It *will* eat the plating off the chassis and generally make a mess of things.

Filter caps can go open or short....either way. I'd be worried about the b+ winding eating it from the stress before the fuse pops. Its real old, and who knows what its been thru over its lifetime. Newer stuff, not so much of a concern...but if you want to keep the matching iron in there, treat it well. Caps are cheap. And all the BS about aged parts providing some sort of "mojo", its just that...BS.

[teletwanger48]

And all the BS about aged parts providing some sort of "mojo", its just that...BS.

I agree. I went to school when history was actually current events and I don't have any magic mojo.. some of my parts need some new iron as well.. lol