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Silvertone 1482 amp, nearly mint; owner wants it to "break up" at lower volumes

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  • Silvertone 1482 amp, nearly mint; owner wants it to "break up" at lower volumes

    Hiya, all. I'm retired from a couple of professions, one of which involved keeping the best audio fidelity possible running from a microphone in one place, through a network of repeater stations, and coming out a speaker in a fire engine, or making things turn on & off remotely.

    Granted, lots of this stuff is now solid state (yecchhh, poo!) and microprocessor based, I began learning in third grade when my dad & I were taking a course for Amateur Novice Class licenses. So I learned on hollow state radios, with vibrator and/or dynamotor supplies, snubbing capcitors.......it's not *all* evaporated from my meager gray matter (well, yet.....)

    So now that I'm retired, I've got lotsa time to play music, and can no longer afford an old Vox Foundation Bass rig like I used to have, so I've had to settle for a nice professional Hartke stack. At least now the sound guy (when there is one) has lotsa choices about what kinda signal he wants to pull for the mains.

    But I diverge. I do that a lot -- I'm old


    A recent band addition-hopeful plays harmonica (only OK), guitar (better than most for rhythm) and sings (way too loud). BTW, it's taken awhile for the old symphonic bassist in me to recognize the modern use of the term "harp", so I'll try to comply. Did I mention I'm old? I spent a lot of years where a harp was an even more ungainly instrument than a piano, had about 30 pedals, and would stay in tune for either 20 minutes, or until someone opened a door

    So he found out I'm Fender Gold certified for electronics, and Silver certified for acoustic and electric guitars, and asked me to replace his original two-wire death trap power cord (see linked and/included schematic) with a grounded modern version (hooray for attentive youngsters!!!) I showed him a dozen I'd just gotten in for refurbing a stack of Hammarlund receivers and other assorted ham/military radio gear, and he then asked about matching tubes, etc.

    The point at which I figured I'd need some help was when he asked if he could modify his amp (switchably, ideally) so it would give him that warm, tube-ish plate voltage sag when he uses it as a harp amp. A corollary to that would be if he could drop this amp's 15 watt output to around 3-5 watts, so he could play crunchy guitar for recording situations with other low powered stuff without being banished to an open cornfield for studio work.

    In case I don't yet have enough posts to send in an attachment, here's a link to the schematic: http://silvertoneworld.net/schematic...rtone_1482.pdf

    silvertone_1482_amp_schematic.pdf

    So I suppose I could come up with a 25-watt sandbox resistor in the B+ supply to the center tap of the output primary and "pre-sag" the B+ to the finals (BTW, these are 6v6 GTA Silvertone-badged finals -- and the rest of the tubes are similarly marked Silvertone, with the exception of one bad 12ax7 that the owner replaced with a GT-rebadged Sovtek.)

    For aesthetics, I'm disconnecting the triple-cap filter can on top of the chassis with discrete components under the chassis. Since there's probably no good reason to leave the suicide cord in place, except for looks, I'll give the owner the option of having me pull it out completely and re-drill the hole large enough for the strain relief for the nice big round 3-pin cord, or just disconnect the original power lead underneath, tape it out of the way, and drill a new hold out of sight (like behind the partial back cabinet panel) and run that in correctly -- black to the fuse AND switch, white to the other side of the power tranny primary, and green to a new, solid, shiny chassis ground.

    So I'm looking for more conventional ways to drop the output without swapping out tubes, i.e., change a pot out for one with a push-pull switch to change a component's value *someplace* to achieve this.


    After so many years of making sure audio was clean & clear, this is quite a "switch" <groan!> for me.

    So, any (printable) ideas?

    Tnx es 73

  • #2
    Not to be a wisecracker, but doesn't everyone want their tube amps to break up at lower volumes? That's why people use isolation boxes, load attenuators, power scaling, etc.
    "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

    "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

    Comment


    • #3
      I think he already has a killer amplifier, which already has
      that warm, tube-ish plate voltage sag when he uses it as a harp amp.
      Is it "too loud" ?
      C´mon, it´s just a couple 6V6 .... and cathode biased, not that high +B voltage either.
      It certainly is not a powerhouse of been boosted to death.

      Tell him to leave and use it as-is, and count his blessings.
      Juan Manuel Fahey

      Comment


      • #4
        Part of the problem (in my eyes anyway) is that he plays harp. and he's using a push-pull amp. Lots of harp guys play into a single ended champ type circuit and then mic the amp. Sure, some harp guys play through a push-pull amp and don't mic it, but those guys end up being way too loud for most venues. There's even a trend for the sub-watt amps based on preamp tubes for harp use. I'm a blues fan, but I'm thinking that a harmonica into a Silvertone is going to be a lot louder than anyone really wants to hear a harmonica.

        BTW there are lots of harp amps threads here, lots of knowledgeable guys too, so don't listen to me.
        "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

        "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

        Comment


        • #5
          OK, and thanks, Bob. Obviously I'm new to this forum, and have a lot to learn about how to make music sound the way it did when I was playing in college in the 70s......
          I'll look where you suggested, and see about having him look for one of the little Gibson (or similar) Class A boxes. If he likes the way I clean up & refurb this Silvertone, maybe he'll commission me to build him something with just a 12ax7 and an EL84, a high-cut "tone" knob and a small-ish speaker. Then, if (heaven help us) he decides he needs to be louder, he can mic the cab, and let someone *else* run that board.
          Sounds like it's time for another Mouser order.
          And I do appreciate the helpful direction; my searches of the forums before I made my OP turned up either about 20,000 hits, or zero.
          Thanks again,
          -- Handlebar --
          (I love being the bassist that people ask to turn *up* )
          P.S. Just got off the phone with the owner; turns out he's already got a Bugera V5, so I'm not sure just what he's after......<sigh>....

          Comment


          • #6
            you know, there's an entire forum here for harp amps:

            Harp Amps
            "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

            "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

            Comment


            • #7
              A quick and simple thing he can try is just replacing the 6V6GT tubes with 6K6GT tubes. They are drop in replacements for the 6V6 but with half of the power. Same tone, less volume and vintage versions sell cheap on the internet.

              I really like 1482s. I've got two, a dead mint '65 and a more properly road worn '67. My '65 is 100% stock and I plan to leave it that way. I bought the '67 so I could do the things you should if you are going to play them. After replacing a bad pot I changed the 2-wire cord out with a grounded one and pulled the death cap, replaced the flimsy masonite speaker baffle with a piece of 3/8" birch ply, replaced the cheesy Fisher console speaker with a CTS alnico I had on hand and put jacks on both the 4 ohm and 8 ohm OT taps for external cab flexibility.

              BEFORE



              AFTER



              It's a pretty solid little amp now. For earlier break up I jumper channels. The instrument channel having 2 jacks makes this possible and it is one of the coolest features the amps has. Plug into one instrument jack then run a jumper from the second to the mic jack so you run out of both channels at once.



              I like to put a delay or reverb pedal in that line too and then blend the wet & dry signals with the amp's separate volume controls.



              I also bump the upper mids a little with an EQ (the amp is somewhat dark on it's own) and run a OD pedal with it's volume set around noon and the gain on about 1 or 2 tops. I never really run the amp's volume north of 4 and it breaks up just fine. Dark amps LOVE to be boosted and the 1482 is no exception. I have a Weber Minimass 50 that I bought to use with my little amps and that works very well for cutting the volume. They are only $95 and may give your customer the volume cut they are looking for. I bought mine for another purpose. I use it between the amp and speaker so I can run a line from the Weber's line out to a separate power amp pushing a bigger cap. It's an absolute beast once you get it going through a real cab.
              Here's a clip of what that sounds like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYIqtnMru1g
              Last edited by Riffraff; 11-15-2013, 01:37 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                You could pop in a 3k3 10 watt resistor in line between the 6V6 screens and the power supply, that will knock down the output a bit with minimal (and easily reversible) changes.

                --mark

                Comment


                • #9
                  RiffRaff & Mark,
                  Thanks very much for the constructive responses -- especially the Herculean description with pics per RR.
                  I'm going to incorporate the second OT tap for a jack for the owner's second cab, and will supply the owner with a pair of 6k6gt tubes for a swap-as-desired power drop.
                  The suggested 3 k-ohm sandbox resistor will find a place with a relay to handle the actual grid currents and a switch to run the relay for a quickie power drop that's easier than swapping the tubes. I think the amp's owner will be happy with minimal visible changes to the top of the chassis -- I'll switch the relay with a push-pull switch attached to one of the pots so it doesn't show.

                  Fortunately, he finally opted for replacing *all* the pots and jacks as well as any other safety & reliability mods I wish to make. He, like me, is more of a player than a collector.

                  FWIW, the death cap was leaky -- it was breaking down at around 31 volts. Seems like it should have been a non-polarized cap, but there was a regular polarized orange drop that had been an "upgrade" in 1995. Odd, though, that the "tech" didn't think to replace the "50/50 chance of hot chassis" power cord. the owner plays death/speed/grindcore metal, but is not at all desirous of dying for his art onstage.....At any rate, that cap has been pulled, leads cut off to mark it as t.u., and tossed into the parts bottle that I customarily return with gear to show the owners what I've replaced.

                  Thanks for the many helpful ideas. I'm pleased to have found so many people who are already professionals in a field that I haven't fooled around with much since my early ham learning days. These days I only use tube audio myself as modulator stages for older A.M. transmitters.

                  Tnx es 73,
                  -- Handlebar -- kl7hny
                  diddly dahdidah
                  dit dit

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Handlebar View Post
                    the owner plays death/speed/grindcore metal, but is not at all desirous of dying for his art onstage.....
                    Hahaha....nice!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You can use Dana Hall's VVR. Inexpensive and it works quite well. They're $30, IIRC?

                      There is considerable information here and examples, schematics, photos etc..... on how to install it.

                      http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=6899.0

                      You can get the amp down closer to 3-4 watts with one quite effectively.

                      With respect, Tubenit

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