Bassman 10 -- Where's the Love?

[bob p]

I'm wondering why the Fender Bassman 10 has failed to appreciate in value like all of the other SF amps. While all of the other SF amps continue to rise in price, these things can still be had quite cheaply. What is it about them that makes people pass on them? It seems like all of the other SF amps are getting all of the love while the Bassman 10 just gets ignored.

[Justin Thomas]

Probably because it has no reverb, no tremolo, no "distortion," and weighs like a boat anchor in a hippo-sized box... I've got me a Bassman 100, which is pretty much the double-power same thing, and it hits the spot nicely. Yes, it gets Working Man tone on ten.
In other words, there is no BF equivalent that people want instead, so... another issue is, everyone just blindly hacks these "crappy" SF amps into Marshall-Squito-Fuzzgrinders that sou nd like $#!+, and so whenever someone hears one, they just go, "screw that, it sounds like total @$$!"

I wouldn't complain about the prices being low TOO much... Just buy them all, and supply&demand will take over in your favour! >:O

Justin

[bob p]

... there is no BF equivalent that people want instead ...

I hadn't considered that, but I think you're right -- that could be a large part of it -- all of the VAH-types seem to dream about owning a BF amp, but then settle on SF amps as a compromise. Maybe the reason that the Bassman 10 are inexpensive is because there's no BF aspirational equivalent to drive up the SF price.

... another issue is, everyone just blindly hacks these "crappy" SF amps into Marshall-Squito-Fuzzgrinders that sou nd like $#!+, and so whenever someone hears one, they just go, "screw that, it sounds like total @$$!"

Well, the fact that they're inexpensive and very roomy inside does give them appeal as a modding platform, even though they're top-heavy and easy to tip. This type of amp is roomy enough inside that it takes me back to the days when nobody was hesitant to hack up a SF Bassman. I'm thinking that the Bassman 10 could be the last call for inexpensive SF modding platforms.

[Justin Thomas]

Well... if it's already been thrashed, do as you must. But if it's unmolested, leave it! Some of us appreciate these things as they are!

The proliferation of inexpensive kits may help alleviate some of the need to hack up old SF amps... And I've played a lot more dog BFs than SFs.

Justin

[bob p]

... and weighs like a boat anchor in a hippo-sized box...

I've never met a Fender amp that I thought was heavy enough to complain about. Even my Twin Reverb with a pair of EVM12L in it is a lot easier to haul around than my SVT. The SVT head is a 100 lb dead lift/military press onto a refrigerator sized cabinet.

[Justin Thomas]

Yeah, but you're talking about a generation who thinks an amp is the size of a USB stick with a phone plug on it... I've had people whine when they ask if they can help me with my gear, and I ask them to carry my Champ... they grunt and tire. And I'm the one lugging The Concert.

Justin

[bob p]

Well... if it's already been thrashed, do as you must. But if it's unmolested, leave it! Some of us appreciate these things as they are!

I agree with you...

20 years ago I wouldn't hesitate to mod a SF amp, but things are different today. If an SF amp has survived 50 years without being molested then it deserves to be left alone out of principle.

But ...

the Bassman 10 seems to occupy a rather odd niche in the SF lineup. Nobody loves them. These things, in perfect working order, can be had for less than the price of anybody's kits. If you shop around it's possible to find this combo for less than the market price for a 50W SF Bassman head 15-20 years ago. For some reason the B-10 just doesn't get enough love to firm up it's value on the used market. As long as they stay cheap, I can't help but look at them as modder fodder.

One of them followed me home last night. The faceplate looked like the amp might have been tampered with --


(notice that the faceplate holes on the second channel are larger than the input jacks, which means they're mounted on a rear plate.)

-- so I assumed that it had already been molested by a hack and that I was just bringing home a circuit that needed to be put back to normal and vetted before I started modding it.

Much to my surprise, when I took it apart I found that it was 100% dead-stock original, everything from the 1973 Schumaker iron to the pots, the Mallory caps and the CTS speakers. It even had the original hang tags. The funny thing ... and the only reason I'm even thinking about modding it ... is that I brought it home for less than the market price of a SF champ. I mean these B-10 amps are *seriously* undervalued around here.

The proliferation of inexpensive kits may help alleviate some of the need to hack up old SF amps... And I've played a lot more dog BFs than SFs.

I've always thought I was alone in thinking that most SF amps I've encountered sounded better than most BF amps. (I don't favor the 12AX7 or the 1 meg resistors in the LTPI.) Maybe that's just because I'm a guy that likes loud and clean. I'm one of those guys who thinks that the 135W Twin Reverb and the 180W Super Twin Reverb are great amps.

Whining about carrying a Champ?!? That could only have come from the iPod generation.

[Justin Thomas]

Hey Bob,

I've noticed the enlarged holes on many SF amps, but usually hidden by knobs. Never seen that on the input jacks before! I know you're not a hack, and that you really do appreciate them, so I don't mind if you mod yours! (As if my opinion matters! ) I just always feel like it's a fine line between mod and hack. Maybe tweak is a better word for mod. But this obsession with turning everything into something it's not is what gets me... I bought a cosmetically beautiful Bassman 50 a few years back, that some hack had "Marshallized." It sounded like butt-ass-crap. I fixed it. Same for the goon who drilled a hole in my BF AB165 for a negative FB switch... same result. On another level, some Beavis did a real "cap job" on my 62 Concert & replaced every single cap. Luckily, that one still sounds great! But I've got a small stockpile of old blue Mallory caps lying around, and a few bumblebees. Not sire if the values are right, but, whatever.

I had a Super Twin for a while, couldn't really get into it. But I got it cheap cuz it was missing parts, and just couldn't' find the little choke for the active EQ - needed one for the 100Hz band. It was a little TOO clean for me, but it really wasn't THAT loud... sold it to a guy who loves them, gets his sound from pedals - which is something that amp did phenomenally well.

One of the circuits I DID really like was my "mixed" bias Dual Showman Reverb. There was a thread here years ago about SF "pull," and that amp had it. And the Shine On You Crazy Diamond sound, too.

Enjoy that NOS BM10! Start scapping them up when you can!

Justin

[The Dude]

I played through a Bassman 10 in high school jazz band. I was chatting with an old buddy of mine about it a while back and asked him if it was still at the school. He told me it had broken and they replaced it with some cheapo solid state thing. The he says, "I know where it is, though", and smiled. The school gave it to him when they replaced it. He put in a new set of output tubes and away it went. He told me we could "work something out" if I wanted it, knowing my history with the amp. I don't really have a use for it, but someday I just might have to have another chat with him about it.

[bob p]

Long ago I went back to my old high school looking for the SF Bassman head/cab that I used to play... it vanished and nobody ever knew what became of it. I think somebody snatched it when one music director left and another music director came along, who didn't know what should have been in inventory.

It sure would have been nice to be reunited with the amp of my youth. I'd be dialing my friend if that was an option for me.

[Steve A.]

Looking at one schematic if you were going to use this for guitar you'd probably want to remove the .0047uf cap between the treble and volume control on the Studio channel for starters. There are also .002uF caps to ground right where the 100k bias resistors connect to the 1.5k grid stoppers. I'd probably look for a custom head cabinet for the chassis since at 75 lbs it is a top-heavy behemoth.

Looking at the Google Shopping tab the cheapest I could find was $700, including $150 for shipping. Probably best to find locally to save on the typical $100 shipping charge.

Steve Ahola

P.S. For a vintage amp like this I could see doing some mods and tweaks to bring out the character of a BF/SF amp. As for converting it into a fire-breathing dragoon I think its better to get a less valuable "donor" amp where you can hopefully reuse the iron along with the chassis.

P.P.S. I just checked the GC site and they will ship a Bassman 10 for $36.45. Ditto for a 1964 Bandmaster w/cab. I guess they heard me bitching about their shipping charges. They used to charge $12.50 to ship an amp across the country- a definite loss leader- but raised it so much last year that I didn't even bother to look at the used amps on their website any more.

[Justin Thomas]

I saw one in PA on consignment - $400. Which probably means $350. I don't trust online pricing, unless the sale was completed. Then, there's location. I still go by the VG Price Guide when selling used...

Justin

[Justin Thomas]

The hacked Bassman 50 I bought had an SSN scratched in it... I asked a friend, and she said that one, they're issued somewhat geographically, and two, the first three digits indicated a ND/SD probability... it also had an original dealer sticker from Bismark... Maybe it was The One?

Justin

[Steve A.]

I'm wondering why the Fender Bassman 10 has failed to appreciate in value like all of the other SF amps. While all of the other SF amps continue to rise in price, these things can still be had quite cheaply. What is it about them that makes people pass on them? It seems like all of the other SF amps are getting all of the love while the Bassman 10 just gets ignored.

Well, the other SF amp designs would have worked pretty well with guitars right from the factory. The Bassman heads have a Normal channel which many guitarists like. IMO the BF/SF bass amps can't compare to the modern ss bass amps with active tone controls, sweepable mids, etc. And 300 watts minimum.

The Bassman 10 could be a tweakers dream, basically rewiring the Studio channel preamp, phase inverter and power amp to the specs of a BF/SF Bandmaster or Super (minus the reverb and trem.) Although it looks top heavy it could be turned into a Super Reverb sans rev and trem with the four 10s (you might have to replace at least 2 of them.)

Or just have a custom cabinet maker create a head cab for it.

I saw one in PA on consignment - $400. Which probably means $350. I don't trust online pricing, unless the sale was completed. Then, there's location. I still go by the VG Price Guide when selling used...

Almost half of the listings at Reverb.com that come up in a Google search have already been sold, and records of previous sales (both asking and final prices) are available in chart and graph form for the more common items at least. And looking at the used gear at the GC site the equipment does move as it might be there one day and gone the next.

Of course there are many over-priced listings on the internet- some WAY overpriced- with the seller hoping that some dumbshit will screw up and buy it... and not just for musical equipment. There are many listings like that at Reverb.com that have been there forever. If you want to sell your item fast you know that you have to undercut the other prices unless yours has something special to offer.

BTW it is simple to cut your sell price at Reverb.com. Unlike eBay there are no listing fees ever nor are your listings tightly regulated. You have the option to add a Make an Offer button to your listing which is recommended. I'll offer 10% less than the asking price and click the box that says I will buy the item if the seller accepts my offer - and I usually get accepted. But only if the final price is reasonable...

Steve Ahola

[Leo_Gnardo]

I've got at least half a dozen customers happy with their old Bassman 10's. Last one just went out the door 3 days ago. One owner was so happy with his, he had a cab maker make him a new cab to replace his clapped-out one, no small expense. Yes they're a bit rare, the prices haven't gone kooky (because no rock star has yet been seen playing thru one, it may happen some day), and built with typical Fender quality. Except for the cab which does tend to fall apart under hard use & damp storage.

Another minor mod to wake up the "studio" channel: there's a treble-deadening cap in parallel with the first stage plate resistor, clip it out and hear the high frequencies come thru. Also the stock bass control doesn't seem to do much except at very low frequencies. For a fast fix, I replace the 100K resistor to ground with 22K to 47K, or you can tack on a parallel resistor to get somewhere in that value range.

Great recording amp, and not half bad for gigs where you don't need welding power.

and most important:

Bob P - good to see you back!