1978 Fender Pro Reverb Ultralinear - About that Output Transformer !!

[TomCarlos]

Mates....

I will be helping a friend sell off a mass number of amplifiers from her late brother. For some of the amps, I need to do a bit of research in order to help the family establish a fair sale price. So I am hoping you can help me out on a 1978 Fender Pro Reverb Ultralinear model.

I found the schematic for this amp on The Tube Store dot com web site - see attached.

I have yet to see the amp so I cannot tell you the condition that it is in nor speakers in the cabinet. I am assuming it is in working condition and looking ok. For now, I merely need to know if this is one of the desirable on non desirable pro Reverb models.

At first glance on the schemataic, I see a solid state rectifier. I see 6L6 output tubes, followed by the odd (odd for me) output transformer. Thus, this is what the "Ultralinear" model is all about. I see how the transformer has taps that go to the 470 ohm screen resistors. In all other designs I am familiar with, the 470s would go to a "B" connection of the power supply.

In trying to understand what this design is all about, I went searching the web. I found one posting on the topic - ultralinear - what's that all about?

In the post, there is discussion on disconnecting the OT taps from the 470s. But at that point, those same resistors would need to go somewhere. And without an equivalent "B" type voltage point, I think one would need to redesign the power supply. So that becomes a project. And "no", I am not interested in doing this.

For some reason, I came across other posts that say these amps are only worth $500. Ok, it is NOT a '65 Blackface, I get that. But I have a hard time believing that this model is not sought after. Even if these models are designed for a cleaner sound (as opposed to the typical break up we expect from a '65 Pro Reverb), I would think they are still a bit more valuable than that!! The only long term concern is that if someone blows the OT, can you easily find a replacement?

So as I advise the family, I wanted to include you all in my research. Anything I should know about this model before I pass along info and help figure out a fair price?

Thanks, Tom

FenderProReverbUltralinearSchematic.pdf

[The Dude]

I believe ultralinear transformers are available. As far as I know Hammond still makes them, though I'm not positive. I haven't needed one for a while. Even if not, it wouldn't be difficult to modify the amp to use a more "standard" transformer if the original was bad. I certainly wouldn't change anything on a working amp. There are lots of guys who like those things.

[Leo_Gnardo]

For some reason, I came across other posts that say these amps are only worth $500. Ok, it is NOT a '65 Blackface, I get that. But I have a hard time believing that this model is not sought after. Even if these models are designed for a cleaner sound (as opposed to the typical break up we expect from a '65 Pro Reverb), I would think they are still a bit more valuable than that!!

I think that $500 valuation comes from spitballers who A) have no interest in acquiring an amp of this type and 2: either collect, or wish they had the $$$$ to collect only the "best" of the series, museum quality pre-CBS black dashboard versions, untrammeled by interference by any electronics tech, also preferably still bearing their original RCA 6L6GC output tubes and all the rest.

What it's worth is what you can get for it. OK, granted this amp doesn't have the mojo attraction that the spitballers lust for, no multi-thousand dollar price tag. OTOH, you have to consider how long you can wait to find a buyer who will match your sell offer, or at least find enough cash to get you to let it go.

Condition matters, a lot. I would polish that thing up, get it working as it should, tag it at say $1200-1500 if it's in spiffy shape, proportionately less if it's beaten up and looks it. Less $$$ if you want it to sell fast, more if you don't mind waiting, and seeing messages from those who quote that $500 drivel. Around here I see silverface Pros in tatty shape occasionally offered around $750-950. Which version they are and whether they're electrically sound I dunno. But you're in the land densely populated with musicians & studios if I'm not mistaken. I hope some guitar twanger there will see the value in your Pro and scratch up the scratch. And smile when he gets it.

[TomCarlos]

Thanks Leo and Dude....

Once I get my hands on the amp and do a cleanup, we'll see what kind of bites I get.

Sadly, my friend passed away with a HUGE inventory of amps and guitars. So his mom and sister are now left do deal with it all. So I hope I can help out - as part of a very long term effort. I just found out that the amp inventory also includes a 1981 Fender 75 Tube Amp. This is a combo, hard wired, 15" speaker. This isn't a super well known amp, but I think it might be a nice amp for someone looking to buy a combo with a 15".

Much appreciated.

[g1]

The 75 was Fender's answer to Mesa Boogie. If you like that sort of thing it's not a bad amp. The footswitch is fairly critical as it's unique and hard to find.

[TomCarlos]

Thanks G1...

[The Dude]

Not to make light of your situation at all, but I pity the person(s) left with my collection. Some assembly may be required.

[Leo_Gnardo]

the amp inventory also includes a 1981 Fender 75 Tube Amp. This is a combo, hard wired, 15" speaker. This isn't a super well known amp, but I think it might be a nice amp for someone looking to buy a combo with a 15".

I've worked on a couple Fender 75's. Darn nice amps, built tough the old fashioned way, and ptp like the good ol' days. May have been a Rivera design, I'm not sure. About amps with 15's, I had a Rivera Jazz 55 someone abandoned. Great amp, and upgraded with a modern Jensen Alnico 15. Took almost 3 years, but it found a home back in California. Some lucky guy's wife sprang about a grand plus shipping and it was under the Christmas tree, he was very happy. I thought it might go about $1300, but not many bites and years of sitting on it like it's gonna hatch, right? So off it went, and the price plus shipping paid by the buyer in the end amounted to not much below $1300.

An outfit near me used to sell NOS tubes to hi fi nuts at nosebleed prices. The owner played pedal steel besides, had a big pile of Twins and not a few Vibrasonics - the special version of a Twin with a single 15". About a year after he died there was an estate sale. Those in good shape went fast, working ones at as-is discount sale prices $600-1000. There was a stack of busted ones they kicked out the door for $200-250 each, mostly to one guy from central Massachusetts who stuffed 8 or 9 into his car and undoubtedly scraped muffler pipes on the highway all the way back home.

Amps with 15's appeal to lap and pedal steel players, also 7 string guitarists, and those who like to down-tune. Plus those who like to reach for those clean clear Johnny Cash notes all the way at the bottom of the E string. I've worked on lap steeler Cindy Cashdollar's recently made Twin 15 Custom. It's a beauty, but a backbreaker to haul around like any twin. The exercise is worth it, her steels sound terrific with that amp. But then again with that talent, it's her not the amp that makes the grade.

Pitch that 75 to the right crowd & hopefully you'll catch a buyer with an appreciative wallet. If it's in good nick, I'd try for a grand or maybe a little more. Again, if it's gotta go fast, you can try for the big bucks but if no joy then dial down the price. Real estate adage "if it hasn't sold, it isn't cheap enough."

[J M Fahey]

I have a hard time believing that this model is not sought after.

Average people do not buy sound, performance or convenience but fairy dust, trying to spray some Guitar Godness on tyhemselves, even if by association.

I bet Sotheby´s of London could auction a pair of *dirty* Jimi Hendrix´s undies for diamond ring prices.

You wash them, they are worth nothing.

People recap amps and keep old worn lossy leaking ones in a bag, towards the day they resell it.
Same with frayed 2 wire cord and worn mains plug.

Bet chicken poo on top and mouse poo inside also add value, if amp used to belong to "you know who" and they are taken as proof of it being "unmolested".

[Leo_Gnardo]

Average people do not buy sound, performance or convenience but fairy dust, trying to spray some Guitar Godness on tyhemselves, even if by association.

I wuz gonna say... the "value" of an amp is increased because some well known rock star has been seen playing that particular model. For instance, nobody gave a rat's hindquarters about Fender Vibroverb 1x15 combo until Stevie Ray was spotted blasting away through one. They were total sleepers and I could have picked up two of them for chump change from a local pedal steeler in 1982, before the "value" curve went vertical on this model. Funny thing is, there's practically no difference between the Vverb and the Pro Reverb. Speaker setup, output transformer, if I'm not mistaken that's all. So there's another marketing ploy for the Pro Reverb - it's a 2x12 version of the famous (and costly) SRV Vibroverb.

For marketing purposes, we'll ignore the tapped OT... "Dig deep amp buyers, excavate your pockets for this very respectable Pro Reverb, brother to Vibroverb, king of amps!" (Should be mentioned 2x10 Vibrolux is another close relative in much the same way.)

[Richard]

The Pro Reverbs aren't very common and the UL Fenders aren't highly appreciated but $500 would be a Bargain! Please price it higher, I live in that area and do not need another amp. A quick peek on Reverb pops up a few similar amplifiers from $800 to $1300. Damn, that thing's intriguing.

[TomCarlos]

Thanks Richard and everyone .... I'll let you know when the family is ready to start selling the collection. I'll see if they can send me some photos. Yes, the amp is in the Sacramento area.

[vintagekiki]

http://www.r-type.org/articles/art-140.htm
Ultra Linear Output Transformers

http://www.r-type.org/articles/art-139.htm
Tetrodes with Screen Feedback

http://www.oestex.com/tubes/ulo.html
Optimised ultra-linear

[Zouto]

Here‘s a reliable source:
https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/en/out...ralinear?c=105

[TomCarlos]

I wanted to circle back to this one and close the loop. The amp sold for $800. I don't know what type of speakers it had nor the overall condition. I was only told it did play and play loud.