mustard cap equivalents?

[hellwood]

ive got an old marshall. what can i replace my mustard caps w/ that wont make a noticeable difference in tone?

[Bruce / Mission Amps]

These are reportedly the equivalent capacitor:

http://www.mojomusicalsupply.com/cap...=44974&s=Dijon

[Rob Mercure]

Horseradish may be a bit too tangy but most report good results with the wasabi flavored ones - but perhaps vitamin Q for the health conscious <grin>.

Rob

[bob p]

well, there you go. i guess it was only a matter of time before someone started selling "Dijon" caps as replacements for "mustards."

Pardon me Rob -- would you pass the Grey Poupon?

[bob p]

if you're health-conscioius, in addition to Vitamin Q, there are Orange Drops, which provide a lot of Vitamin C.

just to make this post valid, there's a bit of internet folklore that says that Orange Drops in a Marshall sound harsh. i don't buy it.

[hellwood]

oh well, i bit the bullet and bought some NOS mullard mustards(.022). now all i need is one (.0022) and a tropical fish(.68). whos got some of these?

[dai h.]

are you sure the ones in the amp are bad? They can be cracked a bit and work okay. You need to check for electrical leakage (DC leakage) to check them. Mustards can be pretty pricey and besides that consider the fact that Marshalls didn't all come with them (IOW it was not some "standard issue" cap they used).

[hellwood]

are you sure the ones in the amp are bad? They can be cracked a bit and work okay. You need to check for electrical leakage (DC leakage) to check them. Mustards can be pretty pricey and besides that consider the fact that Marshalls didn't all come with them (IOW it was not some "standard issue" cap they used).

OK, so you are claiming its no big deal if they are cracked?, because this amp rips like nothing ive ever heard and i really dont want to change anything. so, whats the worst thing that can happen if any of the various .022's, the .0022, or the .68 (lead channel) were to fail bigtime?
also, someone globbed silicon on a couple of them. is that an idea?
thanks Dai! you have given me some good advise before!

[dai h.]

if the coupling caps (your 0.022uFs and 0.0022uF) leaked it would throw off the bias to the preamp tube that it was leaking on and make the sound funny, but if the amp sounds good that would seem to say it's okay. A little bit cracked on the ends, I wouldn't worry much about it. (I guess you're talking about the amp in your pics?) The white stuff is just glue. I suppose the guy who worked on the amp wanted to secure the parts from moving, which was probably a good idea for the orange cap but I don't really think the other ones needed the glue as long as the leads are secured and soldered (since the caps don't have much weight at all). If you're feeling paranoid, might just get it checked out by a good tech. Might also want to change the blue cap near the standby and power switches. It looks like a "death cap" which is meant to AC ground the chassis on the old two pronger AC system. You don't need a "death cap" as long as you're plugging into a correctly wired and grounded outlet, but some people keep them for playing in old buildings with old style wiring or whatever. If you for some reason decide to keep it, I would change it to a modern type meant specifically for the purpose. Anyway be careful in there. It's not worth getting shocked or electrocuted over an amp, so if you feel something is over your head, I would take it to a professional.

[hellwood]

thanks for the good info and good news Dai!! i will save the NOS mustards for the future wasteland era to come! i could swear thats silicon and i hope someone was using it as glue. i makes me wonder if someone was trying to insulate random things. that piece of electrical tape is weird too.
oh, the death cap, so i need a modern one (GFI) in the event i need to put an adapter from 3 prong to 2 prong? why are the old ones so scary?

[dai h.]

I've never heard of people getting killed, but basically you don't want that cap to fail in a way that it leaks current or (especially) shorts end to end, since that would connect one side of the AC directly to the chassis (which is part of the ground circuit). It's more important because usually (unless you're using a wireless or the ground is not connected to the bridge or something) a guitarist is directly connected to the chassis by way of the shield on the guitar cable. You don't want to become a path for the electricity through your body (lips, hands, feet) to the ground or some other piece of equipment (which will give you a shock). You especially don't want the electricity to go through your heart. Generally though, if the AC outlet you're plugged into is correctly wired, the "death cap" shouldn't need to be in the circuit. Using a cap meant for line to ground connection (a "class Y" capacitor) would basically be an extra measure of security. You could still get shocked if say the AC outlet is mis-wired or the safety ground is not connected. Some people just remove the cap entirely.

oh, the death cap, so i need a modern one (GFI) in the event i need to put an adapter from 3 prong to 2 prong? why are the old ones so scary?

Generally you should never lift the safety ground. Think of it as your safety line. If something goes wrong the safety ground provides a path for the current back to earth instead of finding a path through your body back to earth (in other words electrocution). People do lift AC safety grounds and usually get away with it (because most of the time nothing goes wrong) but lifting increases the chance of something going badly if something does go wrong. If it was lifted to solve a grounding problem, then it would have to be by someone who knew what they were doing and you'd want say a securely bonded connection from the chassis to another piece of equipment's chassis that couldn't be removed easily and was not until AC paths (with a safety ground) were fully disconnected (so the safety ground would still be connected but just another way).

[hellwood]

thanks Dai. that makes perfect sense to me since i did all the wiring on my dads hot tub and you dont want things going wrong while youre in 3 feet of water! so basically, if the cap fails, i get zapped and since im earth grounded through the 3 prong unless the divebar wired things like they usually do, im better off removing it all together, and if i want to be badass i get a class y but ill still run into the occasional zap on the lips from the mic when my amp is out of phase w/ the PA. thanks, and feel free to correct me if im "on glue"

[dai h.]

yes, but also it can depend on the way the cap fails. If it fails in a way where both leads short, then that would be bad since you would end up with one side of the AC directly on the chassis. If it failed in a way where the cap opened up and both leads became disconnected, then it therefore removes the connection so that would be okay (assuming correctly wired AC outlet and safety ground present). Parts can fail in different ways (go open, short, rise in value, lower in value, etc.), so this is something that should be kept in mind esp. when it matters (for reliability, human safety, etc.).

[Rob Mercure]

Hey Dai,

Hmmm, somehow I thought you'd have preferred the "wasabi" (sorry, hey, stop tickling me, I couldn't help it <grin>).

Rob

[dai h.]

lol... well I have some Japanese mustard (sort of). These appear to be quite similar but a different color. Matsushita was partly owned by Philips and there seemed to be a long history of similar products from tubes to transistors, so I wouldn't be surprised if these are the equivalent polyesters. FWIW, I'm using a .022uF cannibalized from some power supply board I bought at a surplus store in the normal ch. of my guinea pig 50W, and it's good (no DC leakage). I have some other real mustards and the .0022uFs I tried don't leak either. Conversely I have a CDE Black Cat .68uF600V that the leads are shorted internally on.