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Power brake tames feedback

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  • #16
    OK, just to play devil's advocate here...

    Portable- This suggests to me say 2x10" or 3x10", light-ish alnico speakers, Eminence 102 (6oz magnets) are my preferred alnico 10"s. As previously mentioned, a 2x10" should have one speaker arranged vertically above the other, to reduce acoustic feedback and improve on-stage monitoring.

    About 30W - How are you meauring this 30W? 30W AVERAGE is about as much as you will get from any "harp" amp as yet concieved. Power output of a harp amp is mostly dependent on B+ voltage. For a 2x10" I'd suggest 440-470v B+, if going 3x10" maybe aim for the higher figure...up to 500v (like a brown bandmaster). The higher B+ PTs will weigh more and you'll end up with a 5F6A style weight. 2x6L6 & 2x12AX7 preamp tubes will only need a BFDR style PT & chassis which makes for a lighter, more portable amp.

    Lo gain preamp - of all the preamps I have tried, I prefer something along the lines of the 6G? (rather than 6G?A) Fenders. Relevant also to your tone stack point. Maybe make the middle control a tweakable value with a 25K pot rather than a fixed resistor. If you want to be able to play with differing mu tubes then try a cathode follower tone stack (5E7/5F6A). Using a singe 12A?7 for both preamp and tone stack recovery stages (like a tolex Fender) will limit your choice of Lo-mu tubes.

    Gain & master - only really relevant if you go the CF tone stack route, I've tried many circuits and can only recommend the Marshall 2 input style, mount the master on a Push-Pull SPST with the switch disconnecting the ground reference, with the pot pushed in and the knob fully up the master is now COMPLETELY out of the circuit. Bear in mind that most MVs only have a very limited sweep of usability with harp.

    Anti Feedback - If you pull this off you are a VERY clever man indeed! No one else has built a circuit SOLELY to perform this function into an amp. Feedback is often as much (if not more) a symptom of the output amp (voltage, current and brand of power tubes). Ideally you should design the amp to be reasonably feedback resistant, but don't get too caught up in focussing on feedback killing schemes...9 times out of 10 you will just be robbing Peter to pay Paul.

    Soul control - cool. A ratio of 10:1 upwards for the feedback loop would be good.

    Lne out - cool, use a 25KL to 50KL pot, wired as a variable resistor for the dropper from the speaker, in series with a 2.2K fixed resistor. This will give you some flexibility when lining out to either mixing desks or bigger stage amps.

    Multi-Z taps - ALWAYS run the speakers in parallel, rather than series or series-parallel for maximum signal transfer. Speaker load should also match secondary impedance UNLESS you specifically prefer the sound of a mismatch (not unheard of).

    Compressor - leave it in the studio. Most guys can get a pair of 6L6s/5881 to compress without any outside help, especially with a tube recto, additional compression on stage will drop you back in the mix and do more harm than good.

    Good luck.

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    • #17
      and the harp plays on....

      Originally posted by MWJB View Post
      OK, just to play devil's advocate here...
      What! Do you know this guy?! just kidding. I was at the local music store just hanging out with the guys and my harp guy walks in. So I get another 45 minute test run of an amp that I told him would not be suitable. A 10 SE job modeled around a tweed princeton.

      Originally posted by MWJB View Post
      Portable- This suggests to me say 2x10" or 3x10", light-ish alnico speakers, Eminence 102 (6oz magnets) are my preferred alnico 10"s. As previously mentioned, a 2x10" should have one speaker arranged vertically above the other, to reduce acoustic feedback and improve on-stage monitoring.
      I convinced him to buy a pair of Marshall cabs with 10" speakers. Fit the bill for portable and speaker size.

      Originally posted by MWJB View Post
      About 30W - How are you meauring this 30W? 30W AVERAGE is about as much as you will get from any "harp" amp as yet concieved. Power output of a harp amp is mostly dependent on B+ voltage. For a 2x10" I'd suggest 440-470v B+, if going 3x10" maybe aim for the higher figure...up to 500v (like a brown bandmaster). The higher B+ PTs will weigh more and you'll end up with a 5F6A style weight. 2x6L6 & 2x12AX7 preamp tubes will only need a BFDR style PT & chassis which makes for a lighter, more portable amp.
      Ok, I admit the 30W was completely arbritrary, well mostly. He wants loud and clean so high B+ is cool. I like the brown bandmaster personally.

      Originally posted by MWJB View Post
      Lo gain preamp - of all the preamps I have tried, I prefer something along the lines of the 6G? (rather than 6G?A) Fenders. Relevant also to your tone stack point. Maybe make the middle control a tweakable value with a 25K pot rather than a fixed resistor. If you want to be able to play with differing mu tubes then try a cathode follower tone stack (5E7/5F6A). Using a singe 12A?7 for both preamp and tone stack recovery stages (like a tolex Fender) will limit your choice of Lo-mu tubes.
      He definately wants a mid control. I'm having an intereting time, so far, pulling out what this guy wants...

      Originally posted by MWJB View Post
      Gain & master - only really relevant if you go the CF tone stack route, I've tried many circuits and can only recommend the Marshall 2 input style, mount the master on a Push-Pull SPST with the switch disconnecting the ground reference, with the pot pushed in and the knob fully up the master is now COMPLETELY out of the circuit. Bear in mind that most MVs only have a very limited sweep of usability with harp.
      The master is probably not important.
      I had the master up all the way on his last demo most of the time.

      Originally posted by MWJB View Post
      Anti Feedback - If you pull this off you are a VERY clever man indeed! No one else has built a circuit SOLELY to perform this function into an amp. Feedback is often as much (if not more) a symptom of the output amp (voltage, current and brand of power tubes). Ideally you should design the amp to be reasonably feedback resistant, but don't get too caught up in focussing on feedback killing schemes...9 times out of 10 you will just be robbing Peter to pay Paul.
      OK, you caught me. I was slipping into a cow pasture. I was actually thinking of slicing the top end and/or tightly controlling it through treble roll off caps on the plates and possible inputs. In addition to local feedback a la Dumble with the 22M/.01 cap loop and to top that off adding the lamp expandor/compressor at the output since he seems to think the power brake is the answer to taming the feedback.

      Originally posted by MWJB View Post
      Soul control - cool. A ratio of 10:1 upwards for the feedback loop would be good.
      Yeah, I though that would be a nice way to tighten the shoelaces on the power section.

      Originally posted by MWJB View Post
      Lne out - cool, use a 25KL to 50KL pot, wired as a variable resistor for the dropper from the speaker, in series with a 2.2K fixed resistor. This will give you some flexibility when lining out to either mixing desks or bigger stage amps.
      That makes sense to me.

      Originally posted by MWJB View Post
      Multi-Z taps - ALWAYS run the speakers in parallel, rather than series or series-parallel for maximum signal transfer. Speaker load should also match secondary impedance UNLESS you specifically prefer the sound of a mismatch (not unheard of).
      I agree with that too.

      Originally posted by MWJB View Post
      Compressor - leave it in the studio. Most guys can get a pair of 6L6s/5881 to compress without any outside help, especially with a tube recto, additional compression on stage will drop you back in the mix and do more harm than good.
      He has a compressor built into the special harp preamp he has. The compressor idea is really looking back at the power brake again as a control method.

      Good luck. [/QUOTE]

      thanks....
      Last edited by Marc; 08-29-2007, 03:49 AM. Reason: clarity

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      • #18
        Heresy? (but small & light...)

        One of the most respected harp players around here (with 45+ years of performance under his belt) uses a Shure SM57 mic with a windsock run into a Shure M68 mixer. That in turn runs to a Roland keyboard amp where it is joined by his keyboard. I typically would take a direct send from the Roland's output to the mixer when running sound, giving him some back in the monitors if he wanted it for outdoor shows.

        I'm not sure exactly how he dials the knobs on that little M68 but it seems to have all the sounds a guy would need from clean to a really good-sounding overdrive.

        Of course the guy IS just plain good at what he does, and the bands he plays with are familiar with and use the concept of dynamics...

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        • #19
          Spam merchant

          and this has what to do with this thread?

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          • #20
            Reported poster for spamming...twice now in this section

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            • #21
              vibroluxe reverb

              ive been playing harp for 40+yrs and the best stage amp ive used and i have used many,is the fender vibrolux reverb,64 model and for practice i love the blues jr and kalamazoo model 1 but the main thing is tryin alot of different mics untill you get the combo you like...oh yeah,the only mod i di was put 12at7 in place of the ax7 in the vibro

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