Keyboard amp for Voice and Fiddle?

[Rigormortis]

I'm new to setting up for amplification, so please bear with me.

I have an ElectroVoice Raven microphone . . .



and a ART Tube MP Studio Mic Preamp.



Right now, it's going into a small Crate Keyboard amp, the KBA 10.



(Some of you might recognize that this isn't exactly the old KBA 10, but close.)

I'd like to improve this setup for voice and fiddle, since I'm not entirely pleased with the sounds coming out. It's loud enough for our small studio, but it sounds a bit harsh at times, and less full than what we want.

Does anyone here know if the Crate KB10 is made for a pre-amped signal or not? When the mic goes in direct, it lacks even more fullness.

[Steve Conner]

You probably just need a bigger amp than the free-gift-in-a-cereal-packet KBA10. It'll be sounding harsh because you need to overdrive it to make the required volume.

If your band has a drummer, even a quiet jazz one, I'd be looking for something with at least 100W, and a 12" speaker with a horn tweeter.

If the KBA10 was sold as a keyboard amp, then it should be happy with a line-level (what you called "pre-amped") signal.

[Rigormortis]

You probably just need a bigger amp than the free-gift-in-a-cereal-packet KBA10.

:lol:

Are there amps made especially for vocals you could recommend? We're all playing either acoustically or through small amps. I have a Traynor 20 for my guitar. The drummer has an electronic kit and an amp about the same size as the KBA 10. We're making the transition from acoustic to amped.

[Enzo]

You might look into an "acoustic amp" that most brands of guitar amp now also make.

Amps for electric guitar have a tone to them, they are not hifi. Acoustic guitars however really do want hifi - just cleanly amplify the guitar. Most makers make a model or two specifically for this use, and many these days include a microphone channel as well. In essence it is a mini PA system.

Your little Crate is really just a practice amp, not intended for stage use really. And while "keyboard amps: are also meant to be hifi amps, they are not intended as vocal amps for the most part.

If your act is like a folk act or similar, you don't need a lot of loud, but you do need enough power to move the speaker. Are the other members of the group amplified? Or are you the only singer?

[Joe Bee]

I am surprised nobody else mentioned this, but if your are looking for vocal amplification, the thing you are looking for is called PA. There are small systems, like this Yamaha http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/...25253D,00.html which fits with steves description of a 12" woofer and a separate tweeter. It is also rather affordable, at least by guitar amplification standards :-)

Do not, and I mean DO NOT, try to get away with a keyboard, guitar or whatever instrument amplifier, as they usually have a seriously skewed (or screwed?) frequency response and will give unacceptable coloration to vocals.

[Paleo Pete]

Joe Bee beat me to it, I would also recommend a PA instead of an instrument amp for vocals, I've tried it before and they suck for vocal amps. I've useda couple of acoustic guitar amps, they sound pretty good, but I havent used the mic input option, either didn't need a mic or had a PA available for that.

This Fender PA does a good job for small venues or low volume needs, I've used one and it sounds good, and not too expensive. Peavey makes a similar one. Stay away from Behringer, cheap plastic and I doubt it would hold up to road use.

[Rigormortis]

Thanks guys. It's hard to find anyone with knowledge about amplification in my little town. A PA around here is the loudspeaker at the gym!

The other instruments in our group that have amplification now are the bass, the guitars, and the electronic drum set. We've just started going to the amplified sound, partly because of the addition of a drummer.

The other amps are small. I think the bass player uses a 1x10. The guitars go through a 20 amp 1x12, and the drummer has two speakers on his set. I'm not sure what size. The fiddle is usually loud enough without the mic to do well, but the vocals need help.

I'll look into a PA.

[Joe Bee]

What you are looking for is so small in terms of power that it can hardly be called a PA (public adress), but there are also a few very small PAs out there. Note that I have ZERO experience with this, as I play guitar myself, but what you might consider looking into is something like the "Roland Cube CM-30". It is small and cheap, but still do OK for vocal since at least it has a tweeter. The Cubes have a very good reputation as guitar amps, so I imagine the Vocal one should also be OK, and if you mail order it you may be able to return it within 30 days if you dont like it. The small Yamaha MSR-100 might also do the job.
The Fender passport might be more than you need, being stereo and having all sorts of bells and whistles.

[Enzo]

I may be confused. Is the mic for the fiddle? or is it for vocals ALONG WITH the fiddle?

Anything intended for a guitar will be terrible for vocals - tweeter or no tweeter. And really, you don't want a guitar amp for fiddle, unless you are going for some effect.

If you plan to amplify the fiddle alone and other members of the band have individual amps, then I still think an acoustic amp would be a good choice. A small portable PA as suggested would also work, but would be a little more to set up.

But now that you have defined the group a little more, you say the "vocals," which means to me more than one singer. For that you really do want a PA system. Doesn't have to be huge or large. All the major brands make one or more small portable PA. These are specifically designed for small vocal groups, spoken word, and other non-loud situations. You really dont want a stage full of performers each having his own vocal amp. Very hard to get a nice mix that way.

The Fender Passport series look funny, but to me sound reasonably good. But PV makes good stuff too. Yamaha certainly.

PAs come in all in one systems, or you can get a mixer/amplifier unit and then a pair of speakers of your choice.

Mixers come in usually four or more channels, from four up to way too many. You can mix your vocals, and if there are more channels in the mixer, some of those instruments can be run into the PA as well.

[Paul P]

Note that I have ZERO experience with this, as I play guitar myself, but what you might consider looking into is something like the "Roland Cube CM-30". It is small and cheap, but still do OK for vocal since at least it has a tweeter

I just bought one of these for my daughter for Christmas, along with an SM58S.
I don't know what it sounds like yet but it looks promising on paper. It would
have been nice if it had a few effects, especially a good reverb, but I guess
these can be added through pedals ?

Paul P

[Steve Conner]

Pedals won't work well on a microphone, the impedance is wrong and the signal level is too low.

[MWJB]

"Pedals won't work well on a microphone, the impedance is wrong and the signal level is too low." - They will if you use a Lo-Z to Hi-Z transformer & run it into the Hi-Z input on your PA amp. I've often used PA mics for vocals & odd jam, plugged into the Normal channel of a 50W-100W Fender...works well enough at moderate volumes. In fact at one jam, where the PA went down, no-one noticed that they were singing through a Fender Twin.

A pal of mine used to prefer a delay pedal to the on board delay on his PA head, so he used a SM58 into a Lo to Hi-Z transformer, into his PA...sounded killer.

But, as Steve said straight off, a 10W SS amp isn't going to give you much headroom for vocals.

[Paul P]

Well I'm glad to hear that there may be a way to add effects. The
CM-30 (which is supposed to be 30w for whatever that's worth) has
a bunch of inputs :

http://www.roland.com/products/en/CM-30/features.html

Paul P

[Rigormortis]

In our group, almost everyone sings something. This isn't a problem when we're strictly acoustic. And so far, it seems to work okay to just trade spots at the microphone when we're up for our song. I'm the only one concerned about getting enough volume and headroom on the vocals so far. But I think it's going to be evident to everyone if we ever want to perform outdoors. The fiddle player just likes the addition of the amplified/reverb sound coming through the speaker. And he sings as well.

OK. I don't want to spend a lot of money until I know what I'm doing. So I'm looking at any and all vocal PA amps that come up on eBay. For example, here's a big one--a SHURE. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=110205653329

I don't mind just getting just a head, because I've got some PA speakers for a home theater that I could use for starters. But I don't want to buy junk.

[Steve Conner]

If you're new to performing, your first gigs will more than likely be on a bill with several other bands, and someone else will have arranged to hire the PA system. You don't necessarily need to own one.

Access to one is good though, so you can practice and get used to being amplified. Do you have any rehearsal rooms in your area? Our town is full of places like that: they're basically a sort-of-soundproof room with a drum kit, amps and a PA, that you can rent for a 3 hour session.