New Sensor at it again

[Tom Phillips]

Just ran across this.
Apparently New Sensor has bought another trade name. Now it's Genalex Gold Lion.

In 1957 Marconi-Osram Valve Co. (Genalex) introduced the "King of Power Tubes", the legendary Gold Lion KT88. This tube became the heart and soul of such classics as the Dynaco Mark III, McIntosh MC275, and Marshall Major. Unfortunately, Genalex ceased tube production in the early 1980s and the Genalex Gold Lion KT88 has become very expensive and hard to find.

After extensive research and engineering, New Sensor Corp. has reissued the famed Genalex Gold Lion KT88. This tube has been recreated down to the finest detail with gold plated grid wire, carbonized screen grids, and a tri-alloy clad plate structure for exceptional performance and sound quality.

[clyde]

New Sensor Tung-sol's

Been Using The New Sensor Tung-sol 6v6's And 12ax7 In 5e3 For A While Now. Must Say They Sound Pretty Good, Can't Say That The Reviews I've Read On Them Were Wrong. Hope That What They Do With This One Lives Up To It's Namesake.

If Only The Prices On Nos Would Just Come Down. But I Think That Might Be Just A Dream.

[Slobrain]

We all outa be glad ol Mike Mathews wants to bring back these kind of tubes and other old good tubes as no one else in music biz is doing this nowaday.

Tubes are a dying technology and only a few good business people care about the sound of tubes for music.

Mike Mathews also brings these to us all cheap. Groove Tubes are pretty costly these days and they have around the same failure rate as any Sovtek or New Sensor stuff.

I've gotten only a very very few bad tubes from Mike in the past and he will replace them with no problems so I am glad the guy still digs doing this tube building stuff.


SLO

[Steve Conner]

I have a pair of reissue Tung-Sol 6550s here, and that looks like the exact same innards in a different bottle

[soundmasterg]

Unless someone wants to dissect one, you'll never know for sure. If it is the same exact tube in a different bottle, it wouldn't be the first time. This is old hat in the tube industry and has been going on with all the big names (RCA, Amperex, Mullard, etc) since the beginning.

[bob p]

I'm happy that somebody is trying to make more tubes available to consumers. In the big scheme of things, that's a good thing. Sometimes the original tooling is bought and moved to a new location where production is resumed, and we have the ability to obtain something that would not otherwise be available.

What I'm not happy about is the perceived need to obtain the rights to legendary brand names and use the reputation of those brand names to market merchandise that may or may not be a true "reissue" of that classic product. If the original factory has been out of operation for 30 years and the new "reissue" gets produced in a different plant, with different tooling by different people, then how much of a reissue is it? In a case like that, the marketing hype is essentially dishonest and the intent is to deceive people by placing a brand name on a different product.

I have a pair of reissue Tung-Sol 6550s here, and that looks like the exact same innards in a different bottle

Remember when "Mullard" tubes got reissued? Back then I was worried that somebody was just going to take their same-old same-old tubes and put the newly-acquired Mullard branding on them -- essentially the equivalent of putting lipstick on the pig and taking her to market.

So although I'm happy to see the revival of the classic brands and their classic products, I have to view the associated marketing with some degree of skepticism. Its one thing to have a tube factory that's been in non-stop production for ages, where the same people and the same tooling have been in constant production for decades (think Eastern Bloc). Its something else to try to fake it with brands that have been defunct for decades.

As an example of this, look at the JJ tubes. They've been in non-stop production (at the same locale under different brand names) for decades. IMO those JJ tubes are everythging today that they've always been. But even the European manufacturers who have been in constant production for decades aren't as numerous as they used to be. Look at what happend in Yugoslavia.

In the end, we'll find out whether or not the new Genalex is all its cracked up to be. As they say, the proof is in the pudding. Marketing hype can only give the reissued brand an initial leg-up, and eventually the new Genalex is going to have to re-establish its own reputation.

The only problem that I see in reviving a classic name like this one is that some users will have difficulty telling apart the real NOS tubes from the reissues. Its inevitable that some people are going to overpay by buying one when they think its the other. It would be nice if the new tubes were clearly identified so that this would not be a problem.

[soundmasterg]

Well if the new Genelex is like the new Tung-Sols it will say "Made in Russia" clearly on the bottle.

[Rob Mercure]

OK, I getting old so I guess I can repeat myself - and in total accord with Bob P. these were my comments last August concerning the "Mullard reissues:"

Mullard isn't making these valves - as best I know Mullard doesn't make any valve these days - so these can't be a "reissue" but only a "reproduction." Perhap if we were to start changing the terminology on this board we could correct the impression that the manufacturer's marketing department is trying to hoodwink us with. Since Volkswagon makes the new "beetle" despite it being a reworked Golf they could use the term "reissue" (which I've never heard them do so.) But EH/Sovwrek/whoever isn't Mullard, nor is Gravy Tubes GE, etc., etc.

This doesn't imply that they aren't the "real deal" reproductions - just that one can not "re" issue something that one didn't "issue" previously!

And if one were to view the Vacuum Tube Valley website Eric Barbour maintains that the expensive treatments given to cathodic materials in the thermionic "hey day" are now beyond the investment horizon that current manufacturers are willing to journey. A few years ago the US Geological Survey produced a report stating that the high purity/quality mica used for US tube manufacturing had been depleted and that no new deposits found/exploited as teflon had replaced mica for most applications (the mica for a transistor insulator doesn't have to meet the same "outgassing" under heat requirements that one made for vacuum tubes does.) thus providing one restraint, if minor, to restarting our industry.

And lastly I'm very uncomfortable with ("gold") lionizing Mike Mathews as he/Sovtek/New Sensor have in the past marketed a "something" tube that was more like a 6L6 as a "7591" (this was before the true reproductions) as well the still oxymoronic "5881/6L6GC" (sort of like a "erectus/sapien") while being responsible for hijacking the Svetlana name in the USA. A year or so ago there was press about the "big bad Russians" trying to take back the Reflecktor group from Mathews and I was severely flamed on another board for just asking, what I thought was a reasonable question: "Since Mathews has a history of misleading USA, etc., consumers with his products is it at all possible that he actually did something illegal or politically unwise - such as "misleading" an influential Russian?" And you'd have thought I dug up and molested Betsy Ross's corpse! I didn't state that he had done so but I did state that there was no press describing the events from the Russian side.

Now I realize that Mathews and Pittman aren't alone in these deceptions but they are major players. I've had at least two correspondents describe them as "businessmen" to sorta justify their actions but I don't ascribe different moral and cultural values to those in commerce.

And as far as SM's "made in Russia" comment goes, the ink used on most tube bottles still comes off easily with a little water and there are unscrupulous dealers on e-bay who commonly wipe off and rescreen modern production valves with "Mullard" and "Telefunken." A pair of real, as best I know, Telefunken E83CCs sold on e-bay for $1,000 US so you can see where the motive comes from.

Caveat Emptor, Caveat Emptor, and Caveat Emptor .... Rant, rave, spew, emit, etc. <grin>

Rob

[Steve Conner]

Well, I've been using those reissue 6550s for a while, and they seem great.

They have more gain than about any other tube I've tried. I couldn't even bias them in my amp at 475V plate and screen, as there wasn't enough grid bias voltage available. Even with the bias cranked as far as it could go, they idled at like 90mA each I had to take the screen voltage down to 360, and they still cranked out 60+ watts. They have loads of transconductance and gave the tightest sounding bass ever from that amp. Although, they do seem quite non-linear.

So that suggests they have taken care to make something along the lines of real 6550s instead of punting some generic 6550/KT88 hybrid. KT88s I've tried in the same amp need the 475V screen voltage to get them going, and have less gm.

So if Sovtek's 6550 is a 6550, maybe their KT88 will be a KT88 too.

About NOS tubes, I have a big stash of GEC, RCA, Mullard and Philips tubes that I salvaged from old equipment. They mostly test good and work fine, but are by no means "NOS" so I wouldn't care to try selling them on Fleabay. The Sovtek 6550s sound as good as any other tube I've tried, and their build quality is excellent, with no rattles or microphonics (which a lot of my old power tube collection do have sadly...)

[Rob Mercure]

Hey Steve,

I'm glad you like these valves - like I stated, my contention really concerns use of the term "reissue" and the higher transconductance might suggest that these are a tad different from the originals (but I've had to increase the bias voltage - the good old voltage doubler - on several vintage amps to idle down current production tubes "reissue" or not).

I'd welcome your take on Barbour's VTV cathode materials comments - he implies that the real test is the life of the valve - how long the cathode will provide sufficient electrons. While he can be a curmudgeon, as can we all, I've found his comments to be valid so far.

Now I want to see someone reproduce the 8417s - I'm not a bass player and the 6550s, new or old production, are a tad "cold" for me. Guess I'm spoiled.

Rob

[Steve Conner]

Hi Rob

As far as I know, the 6550 was optimized to run at a lower screen voltage than the KT88. Amps like the SVT and Fender 300PS used, IIRC, 700V plate voltage and 350V screen voltage. I think that means that the gm measured from screen to plate should be higher in the 6550.

I agree with most of Eric Barbour's comments. In particular the stuff about overrunning screens. It was always a mystery to me how so many guitar and PA amps managed to run EL34s with 400-500V on the screen and plate. I remember testing some old production Japanese EL34s (similar to the Mullards) and seeing the screens glow like light bulb filaments under load, and I 've read rumours that old Marshalls with higher voltages would eat a set of EL34s in about a week. In my own experiments I found that knocking 100V off the screen voltage would let EL34s still deliver 50w with no signs of screen overheating even when driven right into clipping.

I think modern production EL34s have had specially reinforced screens, so might actually be better than the originals. Svetlana certainly used to claim that in their advertising blurb. Larger value screen resistors help a great deal too. Beam tetrodes have much lower screen currents than true pentodes, so it was never really an issue with 6L6s etc.

I must admit that I don't know about the tube life issue. I don't get to gig regularly with my own amps, and I have a big collection of power tubes that I keep swapping around out of curiosity. So I've never yet worn out any of them. Although TBH, these 6550s are the first new production tube I've tried that I liked enough to leave in an amp for any length of time, so maybe I will wear them out

[bob p]

... And you'd have thought I dug up and molested Betsy Ross's corpse!

wow. what a potent analogy. i'm going to remember that one.

[soundmasterg]

Rob, I agree with you about the use of the "reissue" term to describe the Tung-Sols, Mullards, Genelex, etc that New Sensor sells. It isn't an accurate term since they didn't produce the items originally. (You could argue that since the trade names of Mullard, Tung-Sol etc were in disuse, and he bought them, that Mike Matthews/New Sensor could call them reissues and still be legit in a way, but I won't.) I overlook that aspect of their marketing however, because these new "reissues" are so far, excellent tubes. I think we're all aware that living in a capitalist society, we have to be suspicious of marketing claims often, and given past experiences with some of New Sensor's marketing schemes, it is a valid approach to use with them. If they make a good product however, I don't have a problem saying that it is in fact a good product. So far there are many other people who seem to like the new Tung-Sols, so it isn't an isolated incident by any means that these appear to be a quality tube. I guess the proof is in the pudding, and with every new type that they come out with, it is smart for anyone who might want to use them to try them out before deciding if they are good or bad.

The labelling/relabelling issue has been going on forever in the tube industry, so its not as if it is a new thing. If you buy from a reputable dealer, the labelling should be correct. If you buy from ebay, then it's always been buyer beware as far as tubes are concerned. The only tube manufacturer that I know of that had a way to defeat that issue was Telefunken with their diamonds on the base....and I wouldn't be surpised if there weren't people who tried to dupliate that too to make a buck.

Eric Barbour is a pretty smart dude, and given his experience, I would trust much of what he says about tubes and their history and production aspects. I would agree that probably none of the modern manufacture tubes will last as long as NOS stuff, but the chances of the manufacturers investing the money to produce that kind of tube quality again are probably very nil, so we're left with what we have, and New Sensor makes some good stuff.