Are you kidding me!? Really!?

[Wilder Amplification]

Here's how they're marketing this and two other supposedly "TOP SECRET" tubes...



As if to state that Eurotubes is really JJ USA and Eurotubes controls all aspects of JJ manufacturing.

For the record I love how he says they "make" 30% less power. Funny...I wasn't aware that power could be "made" by anything...let alone tubes making power. I can see it now...Eurotubes finally figures it out and comes out with a power transformer that can make its own current.

I'm sure Isaac Newton is rolling over in his grave as we speak.

[defaced]

It's funny when engineers (or engineering style minds) read ad copy. They flip out and don't know which way is up. This coming from an engineer who used to date a graphic designer who was good at ad copy. At some point in time you say eff-it and ignore it. But it's funny to watch until that happens.

[Steve Conner]

"Makes 30% less power... and ROARS" - yup, only an ad copywriter could come up with that one.

Let me try: "Makes 30% less power... and a half-hearted croak that inspires 30% more pity than a regular EL84."

Hmm, better try again: "The EL84 is the most abused and overloaded vacuum tube on the planet. They burn out in a few months, and everyone complains that an 18 watt Marshall is too quiet to gig with. So we gave our customers the last thing they wanted: A weaker one!"

Eurotubes might have cheesy ads, but they're better than the old JJ one with Yngwie Malmsteen.

[Wilder Amplification]

"Makes 30% less power... and ROARS" - yup, only an ad copywriter could come up with that one.

Let me try: "Makes 30% less power... and a half-hearted croak that inspires 30% more pity than a regular EL84."

Hmm, better try again: "The EL84 is the most abused and overloaded vacuum tube on the planet. They burn out in a few months, and everyone complains that an 18 watt Marshall is too quiet to gig with. So we gave our customers the last thing they wanted: A weaker one!"

Eurotubes might have cheesy ads, but they're better than the old JJ one with Yngwie Malmsteen.

I do have to admit I do dig the "tube chick" but I'm sure she'd much rather be riding my tube than theirs.

[ivey]

Doing right to the Public.

Like many of you. I sit confused, as to why JJ Electronics is taking this direction.

In all my years in engineering and training. I have been guided in the direction of getting more, and using less to do it.

Now we are hit with these ads of our beloved EL84/6BQ5's being produced to deliver less output than they were originally design to do.

I remember when the 6BQ5's became popular. It was because the 6L6's and the 6V6's prices were going through the roof. And imports from Russia and China had not been allowed. So we gathered up all the European EL84's we could.

I do not get it or understand the logic behind what JJ Electronics is doing. So like your self's. I have a lot of "ifs".

I just say the following:

I do not have a dim view of this planet that we populate. I lived through hell. My family fought Germany and Japan, I went to Saigon, to serve as a Tech Support for the development of "Wild Weasel". I seen death and I know what man can do to man, regardless of the reason or reasons.

I seen how some one's idea of an innocent act, could cost others theirs lives.

So when things happen that is out of the norm. With me, there will always be "what if's".

Thank You

Ivey

[ivey]

Believing ones sources:

In 1998, if any one had told me that America would elect a black president. I would have believed that he or they were insane.

But it happen.

When I was young, we heard all kinds of crazy stories about the Nazi's. We laugh and felt that those people merely wanted attention, to issues that we could not afford to be bothered with.

When they showed us the murders going on in Nanking China, by Japan, we thought it was all staged.

When the govenment created Freddie Max and Fannie May with noting of value to support it, and home buyers lost their homes. We could not believe it and sat wondering "what would happen next", as we began to make runs on the local banks.

If my sources tell me something, and I know my sources. I will trust what they say.

If its happening in the Ivory Coast. then it happen.

Because I believe my sources.

Remember..., we never believed that Arab students would murder us. But 9-11-01 changed our out look.

We go around in circles thinking we have a fix on every thing, only to discover we control not a dang thing.

So when you have lived as long as I have, seen what I seen, and done what I done. Do not act Coy with me. I feel insulted.

Thank You

Ivey

[MWJB]

I don't think that JJ/Eurotubes/Bob Plekta and his company deserve to be mentioned in the same thread as the Nazis, attrocities commited by the Japanese army in WWII, or the 9/11 bombers, or even alleged Ivory Coast opportunists...you are way out of line and way off topic.

How many guys do you think buy 2xEL84 amps thinking that they can just use them for noodling about the house, only to find that they are too loud and they would really like something that breaks up a little earlier? Cheap amps like the Laney LC15/Fender Pro Jr/Blues Jr look like good value for money, but can be a handful in less than gig situations. These popular EL84 amps are fixed bias and should have their power tube bias current checked/adjusted on install, most vendors issue some sort of advice on this matter, the sharper tube vendors (like Eurotubes) carry pre selected sets that they know will operate within a reasonably safe range in an off the shelf, fixed bias amp. SE? Many amps running one small tube in SE are capable of having that one tube run way over rated plate dissipation without burning up. It would serve JJ/Eurotubes no purpose to have a tube on sale that was an instant firecracker, especially as they have shown in recent years that they are able to deal with quality issues effectively.

I think that this thread generally contains a lot of over reaction...the layman doesn't understand the difference between W AC RMS, or W dc plate dissipation, he doesn't know what "makes" his power...he might just want a tube that breaks up quicker & vendors have to speak to their market in syntax that the market understands.

Any tube might, or might not, survive beyond it's data sheet rated max dissipation (safe guideline from the maker, not necessarily practical max in the real world), which appears to be the method of determining Wattage for the purposes of this thread - but it will also have ratings for SE triode, SE pentode, AB1, AB2...all of which might differ, the tube in many applications will exceed rated wattage in practical use as many folks play beyond the range of clean W RMS, or manufacturers idle beyond max dissipation. In many cases, clean W RMS produced in fixed bias AB is as close a perameter as you will find for matching to a tube's "maximum wattage".

I really don't see what is so hard to grasp about this.

Take more water with it Ivey. ;-)

[Steve Conner]

I don't think that JJ/Eurotubes/Bob Plekta and his company deserve to be mentioned in the same thread as the Nazis, attrocities commited by the Japanese army in WWII, or the 9/11 bombers, or even alleged Ivory Coast opportunists...you are way out of line and way off topic.

I agree. Ivey: You've nearly completed Internet Conspiracy Bingo, all you have to do now is mention Hitler.

I'm not convinced that the difference between 18W and 9W is that much to write home about. Lately I've been experimenting with an amp that scales power in factors of 10: you have a choice of 0.3, 3, or 30W output, and an ordinary power scaling control for finer adjustment within each range.

The 0.3 setting is just right for practicing at home, even too loud if I try it late at night. But at a gig the 30 setting seems barely loud enough. Go figure

It would be interesting to hear an AC30 running these new tubes, though.

[MWJB]

Ha! Found much the same thing, I just built a 0.3W PP amp for home use...really, it still needs an attenuator for anything other than daylight hours, unless you live in a detached house! Sounds about half as loud as a champ, by ear. Perhaps 0.125W would nail the perfect apartment amp?

[Steve Conner]

Well, it's just science, innit! We all know that thing about how you have to cut the power by a factor of 10 to make something "half as loud". But not many people seem to actually take that to its logical conclusion, which is to make a power scaling system with a far wider range than usual.

I found that the wattage I wanted depended on the tone. If I want to crank the thing right up, I have to turn the output down to below 0.3. (With both power scaling controls at minimum, it probably goes down to about 0.05W at full overdrive.) But if I want a cleaner tone, I'll increase the output to 3W and turn the volume down. The volume stays the same, but the headroom goes up.

I can use the 30W setting at practice volume, but then it's completely clean because of the surplus of headroom.

Another way to think of it is as a "Post-Power-Amp Master Volume"

[Wilder Amplification]

Another way to think of it is as a "Post-Power-Amp Master Volume"

Isn't that what a power soak is?

I think that this thread generally contains a lot of over reaction...the layman doesn't understand the difference between W AC RMS, or W dc plate dissipation, he doesn't know what "makes" his power...he might just want a tube that breaks up quicker & vendors have to speak to their market in syntax that the market understands.

OK sure...let's just go ahead and continue to dumb things down and keep the misinformation torch alive shall we?

What irks me about Bob Pletka/Eurotubes is that everyone thinks the guy is this badass tech and he's far from it. Some of the terms he's used to sell tubes like "JJs have fast filament rise time and that's really good for "XXX" styles/tones" or claiming that gold pin tubes somehow have a higher bandwidth than non-gold plated ones, etc etc. And now this whole thing about "9 watt dissipation so you get an earlier break up"...this whole "earlier breakup" thing is a misnomer. Sure it might hit the onset of clipping maybe 1 number on the dial below another set of tubes but you honestly think the perceivable volume at the onset of clipping is gonna be any different?

To me he's nothing more than a bullshitter who doesn't know anything about the inner workings of tubes and tube amps. He's nothing more than another "tone snob" trying to pass himself off as this badass amp tech all in an effort to sell tubes in my book.

[Steve Conner]

Isn't that what a power soak is?

Yep, that's more or less what I'm doing. On the 0.3W setting it gets "power soaked", on the 3W setting it goes straight through to the speaker, and on the 30W setting it goes through my top-secret anti-power-soak, which is basically just the output stage from a solid-state amp.

Re the misinformation thing: The earlier breakup thing is true. I can't see any flaw in it. It seems to me that those tubes would break up almost 3dB earlier, so they might make it into my 3dB Club criterion. They don't actually tell you, but I assume the EL844 also has other differences besides the reduced plate dissipation, so that it runs at a lower current and doesn't burn up when installed in an EL84 amp. It's not going to help you crank the thing in an apartment, but it may well change the feel of the amp under overdrive in a way that players would appreciate.

Apart from that, I agree that Eurotubes do a lot of "sales engineering"

[ivey]

You Gentlemen are right, yet on the other hand.....,

I know and I am aware of the power issues of trying to get low wattage use out of a device that was not design to do it. Its like telling a Corvette to get 35 to 38 miles to the gallon. It was not build to do it.

But an EL84, is just that, an EL 84.

They want to create a tube with 9 watts of dissipation. Good! But give it a new nomenclature. EL84/6BQ5 has been set in stone for years. Leave it alone. And move on.

I want to here; "Hey guys we are bringing back the EL83" or what ever nomenclature they want to assign to it.

I do not want to hear the the "New 9watt EL 84". Because I feel that I am being short changed.

I feel like this. If you are going to do something for me. Please, do not do it half ass, and then tell me you are doing it for my best interest in mind.

The number line is endless, call it something else. This will create confusion in the end, when those same people want a true EL 84 and get this fake.

"Why is my amp not working properly"? Oh..., its the other EL 84@#*

We have problems all ready with fake transistors, are you willing to let it go back into tubes. Yes, tubes.

What you people do not know and fail to remember, is that after WWII, the Europeans would remark their low quality tubes (at that time) as American or British. It was a mess.

I lived through a lot of B.S., why must I relive it.

And please, do not give me that trash about how can I compare JJ Electronics to the Nazis, because for years, we (the Americans, hell the whole world) were saying what nice people they were.., they were doing great things for Germany. Until..., why should I say it. You all know the truth.

I am not from Missouri, but show me sucker, show me!

So I ask you; all you wonderful and wise gentlemen of the world.

Do you trust your local "Use Car Salesmen". Because if you do. I'll point out a complete fool.

Call it something else. Not the "New EL84", because there is nothing new about it. We had a 9 watt tube. The "New EL83". Do you remember that, I did not. I am a lot older than most of you


Take Care

Ivey

[Pedro Vecino]

Is known that Rory Gallagher had used EL83 in some of its AC30. But is needed adapt some connections in the sockets.
It is quite possible that JJ has the information necessary to rebuild them using a pin configuration identical to the EL84.
Plate structure of the new EL844 is virtually identical to the Tesla EL83.

[J M Fahey]

Sticking to FACT, if those new tubes can dissipate 9W (I don't care how much they put out) and they say they CAN be plugged into 12W EL84's sockets, with no further modification, that is CRAP of the highest quality.
I can hardly hear the difference between a 9W amp and a 12W one (30% difference) but I can SURE see the difference between an 800ēK plate and a 1050ēK one (same 30% difference).
If not for other reason, I can see the second one on the dark from far away.
Given his earlier "technical explanations" that Eurotubes guy certainly deserves the Bulshit Artist badge and serial number, to be prominently displayed in his ads.
Do they come from Ivory Coast? Are they rebadged EL83? Are they rebottled EL83 parts? Are they from the trash bin? I don't care, they can't be plugged into EL84 sockets, nor do they automatically offer less power, just dissipate heat in a worse way.
Putting a chromed tube shield around a regular EL84 will also make it overheat, lower its safe power dissipation, but will not lower its power.(until it burns, that is)