Now what?

[g1]

Since we're talking about what's new, has anyone but me lost the 'like' button?

I just noticed that too. Sorry for breaking it.

[rjb]

Despite my snarky-sounding earlier post, I wouldn't dismiss circuit bending just because it's not my thing. Although I've no numbers to confirm this, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that more prominent rock musicians have gone to art school than to music (or engineering) school.

Isn't pop music filled with examples of "misusing" equipment to obtain interesting sounds? Are guitar amps typically designed in full compliance with tube manufacturers' specs? Who discovered that acoustic feedback can be music instead of unwanted noise?

Some other examples (some may be rumored and/or mis-remembered):
- Beatles cascading mixing board preamps to get the fuzz tone in "Revolution".
- Dave Davies slashing speaker cones to get "that" sound.
- David Lindley recording lapsteel through equipment on the verge of meltdown.
- In the first episode of TV miniseries Sonic Highways, Dave Grohl and a recording engineer scurry on their knees, punching foot switches and twiddling stomp box knobs while I-forget-who solos. As the last chord slowly decays, DG repeatedly dis-engages and re-engages a signal cable to impart crackling intermittent dropout. Guitarist says something like "That was great, but how am I gonna reproduce it in concert?"

-rb

PS - Who was it, I think in the 60's, who used to hold a vibrator over his guitar pickups?
PPS - Almost forgot to ask, did someone request this new category? Hope they weren't scared off by the old water hose bastards.

[rjb]

Since we're talking about what's new, has anyone but me lost the 'like' button?

I noticed that too. Although we generally use the 'like' button to show appreciation for actionable information or a good wisecrack, I think its real purpose is to help GoogleSpy determine what products to advertise. Maybe they gave up parsing how to sell "Thanks, Enzo."

[Enzo]

That was my question, where did it come from? I don't recall any discussion at all or suggestions to create it. I have nothing at all against creativity or experimenting.

[SoulFetish]

I just noticed that too. Sorry for breaking it.

"like"

[tedmich]

well its not from the 60s but...

[rjb]

In this vid, he mentions having played guitar with a vibrator but doesn't elaborate....

Here's a tutorial on playing guitar with a hand drill...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi4NPhyvQyo

I guess neither of these are "circuit bending", but kinda fun nonetheless.
Reminds me of the High Zero festival in Baltimore. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Zero

-rb

[teemuk]

I agree, no need to dismiss this topic even though it's not particularly something of my own interest (although I pretty much started out this whole electronics hobby by something one could consider "circuit bending"). Anyway, this topic could bring out some interesting ideas and discussion regardless. Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't some great innovations created by accident?

On the field of electronics things like X-rays, pacemakers and microwave ovens were all innovations born out of an accident and "circuit bending". Think about it.

..And isn't it kinda "circuit bending" to turn a digital CMOS inverter into a "linear" amplifier, convert vacuum fluorescent displays into tube audio amplifiers, discover a "phaser" effect by manually slowing down a tape echo, make a groundbreaking reverberation device out of a thing that originally emulated time delays of long-distance telephone lines, or basically anything of that sort?

Lighten up guys. If circuit bending disturbs you then just do not visit this subsection. Problem solved. Myself, I'm interested to see where this develops.

[Enzo]

Wow. I started this thread to ask the question: Why do we need a new separate section for this? And somehow that is interpreted to mean I hate the topic.


I agree, it is clever when someone used a CMOS logic IC as a preamp stage, but is that much different from Fahey suggesting a VCA be replaced with some JFETs? Also a clever solution.


Disclaimer: I am in general opposed to adding special sections. To me it is just more rigmarole to wade through to get to content.

[soundmasterg]

If anyone knew why this section is here it would be Tboy.

Greg

[HaroldBrooks]

Hi, I am new to this board, and your post caught my attention.

I had been previously debating the merits / faults associated with amp modeling at another site, when one chap came up with the concept of modeling amps that were unstable electronically, in an attempt to capture sounds that wouldn't be viable in the long term for a working amp, but sound fantastic in the short term none the less.

I have a little experience with this in doing mods of my own. As one example, I ran 5V6 RCA tubes in place of 6V6s in one of my ancient Valco amps, and it sounded better than ever, by quite a large margin in my estimation.

Now as you probably know, running that high a filament voltage (6.3v vs 5.3v) with a tube that expects 5.3v at the heater will most likely lead to the tube failure down the road, but the enhanced sound was indeed real, and takes that amp into a very new realm sonically. It added clarity to the tone, and a "Wild" on the brink type of distortion I never heard from any other similar guitar amp.

Same with using a variety of "out of spec" components and parameters such as coupling caps, resistors, voltages, transformers, etc.

So as a result, I believe that if your goal is short term changes to a tube amp that might be unstable in the long run, you might achieve some very unique tonal and response characteristics, and those could potentially be captured in a digital model, despite the instability of the original prototype.

Just some food for thought.

[Leo_Gnardo]

Now as you probably know, running that high a filament voltage (6.3v vs 5.3v) with a tube that expects 5.3v at the heater will most likely lead to the tube failure down the road, but the enhanced sound was indeed real, and takes that amp into a very new realm sonically. It added clarity to the tone, and a "Wild" on the brink type of distortion I never heard from any other similar guitar amp.

AFAIK Joe Walsh was credited with the remark: "Sounded GREAT!!! Just before it blew up..."

And I suppose that's OK, as long as you have a stash of 5V6's. Without anything being done to compensate, overheating the cathode will result in an oversupply of electrons, and send the bias current way high, giving you the effects you mention. Now I have to worry I'll be seeing a rash of 6V6 amps coming in, their owners trying to pile on to a new trend, meanwhile stocks of 5V6 will deplete to the point they cost gold dust money instead of a buck and a quarter.

Thanks for posting & welcome aboard.

[big_teee]

OK, so what is this, why did it show up, and what is it for? Just more feature creep? A place to do mods instead of where they are now?

I don't get it either.

Circuit bending - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circuit_bending

Circuit bending is the creative, chance-based customization of the circuits within electronic devices such as low-voltage, battery-powered guitar effects, children's toys and digital synthesizers to create new musical or visual instruments and sound generators.

I guess circuit bending is a loose interpretation, for whatever!
Rock On!
T

[eschertron]

As far as modeling, you can create a model for any transfer curve, real or imagined. You could also measure the transfer curve of a 5V6 running hot, and chart that out. Back in the 90s I played around with digital synthesis software called Csound. At some point the computer hardware caught up and could generate sounds in real-time. By then I'd moved on the playing with other things, and plug-ins for most DAW platforms provide similar results in a more user-friendly package. The tools are out there. Go for it! Be the source for plug-ins that sound like what the tube guitar guys can only dream about (insert amp-blowing-up smiley thing here).

[Leo_Gnardo]

FWIW there was a band around here maybe 30 or so years ago, named Bent Cirkus. Or maybe it was Sirkus... whatever. I guess they were ahead of their time. Never did get to see 'em. Another useless obscure fact from your pal LG.