reverb effects

[pontiacpete]

what is the best reverb pedal that doesn't eat batteries like crazy?

[Mark Hammer]

Sadly, they ALL will, simply because it is the nature of the beast.

If analog, the transduction of signal to "stir" a set of springs enough will consume current. If digital, the amount of clock cycles and operations to perform the signal processing needed to emulate reverberant spaces will also consume current.

Several years ago, I was fortunate enough to be asked to be a beta tester for the Line 6 Tone Core series. During the process, I had a few e-mail exchanges with one of the project developers concerning the Echo Park pedal. One of the things I learned was that they had decided to sacrifice a couple things with respect to how the signal would be processed, simply so that it could do its thing with fewer clock-cycle requirements. That, in turn, permitted the pedal to run off a brand new alkaline 9v for a couple of hours. Although they didn't mention it, I gather at least part of that motivation was so that, in a pinch, a customer could at least try out the pedal in a store without the store clerk having to look for the right adaptor and find an outlet to plug it into where the cord would reach far enough to let the customer try it out with amp X. They assumed, however, that if one was gigging, the pedal would be powered by an external supply. So, in effect, it was planned around battery operation for short-term emergency purposes only.

So, for at least the next while, do not expect any reverb pedal to let you use cheap batteries and get a month or two's use out of them. Delay lines, maybe, since those involve less complex processing, and can do a decent job in (lower current) analog form. But reverb is a MUCH bigger deal, processing-wise than you think.

[pontiacpete]

Thanks for the reply, Mark

I was afraid of that. ONe of my musical endeavors for the past 10 years has been playing in the New York Music Underground program and so I continually try to find a better solution to the sound issue playing out of battery supplied equipment. Now I'm using the Crate limo 50, which always has problems.
You say there are delay pedals that don't eat batteries. The one delay pedal that I used to have was the analog boss delay, the dark red one(I certainly shouldnt have sold that one). It used to fair very well with batteries. Do you have a schematic for one of those or something similar to this? I've put together 2 of JD Sleeps kits, the PT 80 and the D-verb and both eat batteries very fast.
If I could only find a way of powering a fender princeton

pete

[Mark Hammer]

The PT-90 and D-Verb are both digital, hence the power consumption. The GGG site should have a project for the AD-3208 delay line. That uses parts easily available from Steve Daniels over at Smallbear Electronics in Brooklyn and should be able to live off a 9v for a while.

The posted schematic uses a pair of BL3208 chips, but that was only because it was drawn up before Coolaudio started pumping out 4096-stage devices again. They are pin for pin like the 3208, so the board accommodates a pair of them (8192 stages in total) which can give you well over a half-second of top- notch quiet delay.

[pontiacpete]

I went to coolaudio and typed in 4096 and it directed me to the lm324 datasheet. Is this the better ic to use? and/or which one is it?

[Mark Hammer]

The coolaudio chip you want is the V3205SD. Go here - :: official website of coolaudio semiconductors products - and scroll down until you see it. Smallbear carries them: ICs Delays, Echo and Special Function

[Steve Conner]

You're going to need a bigger boat. No, a bigger battery. You can get sealed lead-acid ones for about 10-20 bucks and they're rechargeable. They come in 6V and 12V, so you'd need some sort of 9V converter.

Mark is right, I have an Echo Park and it really is "emergency use only" with regards to battery life.

A couple of these http://www.pvpower.com/12volt18amp-h...idbattery.aspx with an inverter should run a Princeton for a while. :-)

[EffectsGuru]

I like the Electro-Harmonics Holy Grail, they don't eat batteries because they don't use batteries (not be a smart ass..lol), it's a really good pedal and the reverb sounds really good, you would be hard pressed to tell the difference in a double blind test. I own one... the guy that makes Soniccord amps sent one with my amp because I wanted a reverb with the amp but he didn't do that, he felt that amp reverb was cheesy and that the amp is used for recording so most would use a studio quality reverb, I think he called it "Plate" reverb (a big room with a metal plate or something?). So, check that out...

[pontiacpete]

Got the grail already. It's a great pedal, but I've found that has problems in some rooms or through some pa systems or whatever the reason has been, with noise. I've been on some gigs that it just made noise and have time to figure it out so would have to scrape it.
But I still like the sound of it and use when i can.

pete

[pontiacpete]

You're going to need a bigger boat. No, a bigger battery. You can get sealed lead-acid ones for about 10-20 bucks and they're rechargeable. They come in 6V and 12V, so you'd need some sort of 9V converter.

hmm. I'm going to look this up now . ... .... .......

A couple of these 12 Volt 18 Amp-Hour Sealed Lead Acid Battery with an inverter should run a Princeton for a while. :-)

Is this rechargable? Doesn't appear to be or am I missing something?
THe crate limo uses a 12v rechargable battery which lasts me about a year or more(I average one gig every 2 weeks that last for about 3 hours, 26 gigs a year with the dreaded limo). Do you think I could use 2 of those and do think they'd last as long? Is there a way of computing this?
I'd loved to learn more about this.
Also what kind of inverter?
Sorry Steve for all the questions and I think this is a bit off this threads topic,,oops
pete

[EffectsGuru]

I can understand that... I havn't actually used mine in a live setting, and that can really change your opinion on gear from using it at home or recording... it's a very different situation... Are you open to trying those external amp-head-sized reverb tanks that different companies make... all though their big (compared to pedals) I'm 99% sure you'll get a solid reverb out of them...

[pontiacpete]

I do like the stand alone reverbs, but I use a BF fender deluxe/or vibrolux reverb when I'm doing gigs where I can plug in to AC. The issue I'm raising is an my attempt to get a better sound when being driven by batteries alone.
thanks for replies

pete

[Mandopicker]

I've had my Holy Grail for close to ten years and have sent it back to EH for repairs twice. Used it live and at home and the biggest complaint I have is that it can be noisy.

So, I recently replaced it with a Hardwire RV-7
( DigiTech® HardWire™ RV-7 Stereo Reverb )

and I am enjoying it a lot. A/B'd it versus the boss, kept in mind my experience with the Holy Grail, and found the RV-7 to be top notch. Very little noise when pedal is engaged, versitile, and real nice construction. Knobs felt way better than the Boss.

I think it is a good choice for around $140.

[Mark Hammer]

One of the suggestions that recurs every couple of months is that of using a 6-pack of D-cells. They can supply more current, or the same current for a longer period of time. What they can't do is fit inside the pedal itself, so that necessitates rigging up a cable to plug the external battery supply into the power jack on the pedal. Works like a charm, though. Pure clean DC. No hum, no wallwart.

[Mark Hammer]

Noise in digital stompboxes is something that the industry has been slow to adapt to. In many instances, the noise is not the stompbox itself, but rather power lines shared between several digital pedals, and heterodyning of clocks on two or more pedals. I have pretty much the complete Line 6 Tone Core series. Each is pretty dang quiet, but get two of them sharing the same wallwart, and you're often asking for trouble.

I imagine someone will likely come up with EMI/RF-filter equipped daisy-chain cables eventually to address that problem. In the meantime, you pays your money and you takes your chances.