tube pedal board buffer

[Manic]

Hey guys,

I been doing battle with My pedal board. Basically its ruining My guitars tone. Its the usual suspects. True bypass pedals suck tone because of cable capacitance. Boss, Ibanez, and most any pedals that I own have AWFUL sounding buffers. Basically what I'm hearing with the run of the mill pedal buffer is that it wrecks the top end. The cheap buffers make it brittle, thin, its just gross.

The best buffer on My pedal board at the moment is the one in My Chandler Tube Driver (rack version). Its just OK sounding. It sure beats the pedals though.

I use the Tube Driver as My first "pedal" currently.
From what I have heard though hours of testing is the the first buffer on the pedal board set the "tone" for the entire pedal board.

I see that there are buffer pedals out there for a pedal boards input i.e.

Pedals

Axess Electronics :: Buffers/Splitters :: BS2 Guitar Audio Buffer/Splitter

Pete Cornish

I'm just not a big fan of solid state devices, although I do use a few FX pedals.

So, I had an idea to build a tube CF buffer to plug My guitar into and drive My pedal board with.

Maybe I could build the input stage to a Umble FX loop? or maybe this...

The Valve Wizard -Cathode Follower .

I was also considering building a full blown DC coupled cathode follower in a pedal like this one....

The Valve Wizard .

What Do You all think? I would love to hear some ideas You all might have.

Thanks much, C. Smith

[JoeM]

If all you want is neutral buffering, I dont see a Tube CF as very practical considering PS requirements, enclosure etc. A small op-amp based buffer can be easily powered, and won't color the sound. (Maybe you want some coloration)

[Manic]

Thanks for the response.

I have a The Tube pedal that I'm going to use for the power supply. It puts out 275v DC and 12v ac for the heaters. Its also in a nice small pedal package. The pedal plugs into 120v AC service.

I have found solid state buffer kits to build. I would really rather use a tube.

This guy looks like He has something like I want to build.....

http://www.amprepair.com/kanuter_vtpb1.htm

Thanks again.

[JoeM]

.... I would really rather use a tube.

OK, but why? I just think it's not very practical as an outboard pedal. You can find some kits and/or PCBs at General Guitar Gadgets. I've built quite a few buffers/preamps just using single op-amps and I like the way they work in front of my pedals.

What kind of pedals are you using that are ruining your 'tone'? I dont find that the Boss or Ibanez pedals destroy the sound with my gear, but I dont claim to have Eric Johnson ears either.

[Manic]

OK, but why? I just think it's not very practical as an outboard pedal. You can find some kits and/or PCBs at General Guitar Gadgets. I've built quite a few buffers/preamps just using single op-amps and I like the way they work in front of my pedals.

What kind of pedals are you using that are ruining your 'tone'? I dont find that the Boss or Ibanez pedals destroy the sound with my gear, but I dont claim to have Eric Johnson ears either.

As I stated in My original post I don't like the sound of any of the buffers I have in My pedal collection. They just sound terrible to Me<.

The difference in tone between plugging straight into My amp and comparing that to going through My pedal board in a night and day difference in tone.

I build My amp PTP. I worked real hard on getting to sound good. I just cant have nasty ole stomp boxs wrecking that sound.

Hope that helps.....now for some ideas?

With respect,

C Smith

[uvacom]

Look up the till preamp, that's a really simple (I daresay textbook) circuit, and I can attest it sounds great. It's based on a jfet, not a tube. But try it. It will not make your guitar sound brittle, or thin, or processed.

*the only caveat is that if you install it in your guitar, it will change your tone unless you compensate for the input impedence, because it will basically eliminate cable loading effects. Personally, I like the effect, but you may not. Alternately, you could install it in a pedal and eliminate the cable capacitance of your pedal board and anything else in between the buffer and your amp, but keep the tonal effect of the cable connecting your guitar to the buffer.

[TheEHMan]

You could also try a VHT Valvulator. It has a tube buffer plus a pedal power supply.

[JoeM]

The difference in tone between plugging straight into My amp and comparing that to going through My pedal board in a night and day difference in tone.

I build My amp PTP. I worked real hard on getting to sound good. I just cant have nasty ole stomp boxs wrecking that sound.

Hope that helps.....now for some ideas?

With respect,

C Smith

Maybe a tube buffered loop in your amp would better suit your needs. If one of the pedals in the chain is doing weird things, even a buffer may not solve the problem with that specific pedal. Can you trace the 'night and day' difference you refer to to a certain pedal?

[Manic]

Can you trace the 'night and day' difference you refer to to a certain pedal?

Any buffered pedal I own....

Boss, Ibanez, Chandler, DOD, EH, MXR. All of em sound like crap, but some are worse than others.

Some of them like the MXR carbon copy do OK* after a pedal that already has a buffer, but by itself (guitar> cable> MXR carbon copy> cable> amp) is a tone wrecker. Any pedal I have tried by itself sounds awful.

[Boy Howdy]

I'm having these same issues. My new Lexicon MPX-100 is extremely bright when compared with just a cable. I've noticed also that I can't use my buffered Boss RV-3 digital reverb/delay pedal after my unbuffered (80s vintage) Nady tube overdrive (TO-2) and distortion (TD-1) units. The Boss brightens things to the point of un-use-ability.

One thing I'm considering to deal with this is to run the digital effects all wet and through a loop box. That way I could mix the all wet effected signal independent of the straight unbuffered dry signal. This would allow a true bypass on the buffered effects, which I don't have now.

I don't actually prefer the sound of straight guitar, cable, amp, but dude's right, some of these buffers are just extremely bright.

That 'The Tube' (if it's the Westbury unit) is highly collectable, BTW. That's what Shawn Lane used. The original Nady TD-1 is the same pedal. Korg made a version, which I've never seen, and Guyatone manufactured it. Just a little FYI.

[uvacom]

I really don't think it's so much that the buffers are "bright" (any op-amp or transistor buffer fundamentally has a low-pass response), it's that they transform the impedence, either by presenting a higher input impedence to the guitar and/or presenting a lower output impedence to the amplifier, creating a brighter signal. But any decent buffer is itself quite transparent in terms of its voltage transfer characteristic.

I've used a couple transistor preamps as buffer circuits before (siegmund double-drive for one) and guess what? They make the tone a lot brighter too! Tubes aren't some magic panacea and they definitely aren't better linear amplifiers than transistors, which is what you want if you want a device which won't change your sound. If you want a buffer that will add a very small amount of pleasing distortion, a tube buffer might be good.

You're better off using some impedence-matching devices (di boxes, re-ampers) if you don't want the buffers to mess with your tone.

[Manic]

I like the looks of this...

SWELL G-Drive High Voltage Tube Drive for Guitar

[JoeM]

I like the looks of this...

SWELL G-Drive High Voltage Tube Drive for Guitar

For $299.00??

[Manic]

I really don't think it's so much that the buffers are "bright" (any op-amp or transistor buffer fundamentally has a low-pass response), it's that they transform the impedence, either by presenting a higher input impedence to the guitar and/or presenting a lower output impedence to the amplifier, creating a brighter signal. But any decent buffer is itself quite transparent in terms of its voltage transfer characteristic.

I've used a couple transistor preamps as buffer circuits before (siegmund double-drive for one) and guess what? They make the tone a lot brighter too! Tubes aren't some magic panacea and they definitely aren't better linear amplifiers than transistors, which is what you want if you want a device which won't change your sound. If you want a buffer that will add a very small amount of pleasing distortion, a tube buffer might be good.

You're better off using some impedence-matching devices (di boxes, re-ampers) if you don't want the buffers to mess with your tone.

I dont mind some tone change if is sounds good...pedal buffers sound gross!

For $299.00??

Thats why I wanted to build it.

[Manic]

I'm having these same issues. My new Lexicon MPX-100 is extremely bright when compared with just a cable. I've noticed also that I can't use my buffered Boss RV-3 digital reverb/delay pedal after my unbuffered (80s vintage) Nady tube overdrive (TO-2) and distortion (TD-1) units. The Boss brightens things to the point of un-use-ability.

Its good to see that someone else has some ears.

That 'The Tube' (if it's the Westbury unit) is highly collectable, BTW. That's what Shawn Lane used. The original Nady TD-1 is the same pedal. Korg made a version, which I've never seen, and Guyatone manufactured it. Just a little FYI.

Yeah its a Westbury and it's the most un-dynamic OD i've think Ive ever played through. Not My cup of tea. It does have a pretty organic(tube) tone though. Probly why some like it.