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Boss DD-20 Mods and Observations

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  • Boss DD-20 Mods and Observations

    Although I initially posted this on TalkBass, I thought that it might be of more interest to the people here.

    Recently I became interested in improving the sound of my DD-20 Giga Delay. To that end I replaced the original cheap/low performance M5218 and NJM2100 op amps with modern low noise/high performance OPA1612 and OPA2365 respectively. Additionally, I added film bypass capacitors across the electrolytics which couple the various analog stages. Bypass capacitors help retain transparency in AC coupled circuits.

    The end result is that the DD-20 now sounds very close to the unaffected signal (when using a true bypass A/B switch for comparison). Before the mods it seemed to compromise the tone somewhat. It still loses a very slight amount of clarity, but the difference is unlikely to be noticed in a gig situation.

    I also did some experimentation with placing the DD-20 before the input of my Eden WT-500 and using it in the effects loop. When used before the amp, the DD-20 adds a noticeable amount of background hiss, even in bypass mode. This noise increases as you turn up the effect level. I was hoping to reduce the background noise with the low noise op amps, but I'm not sure how much effect they have had. At some point I would like to compare my modded DD-20 to another stock unit.

    What I found, however, was that placing the DD-20 in the Eden's effects loop reduced the hiss considerably, such that it is hardly noticeable. Thus, for lowest noise, I would recommend using this particular pedal in an effects loop, if possible. After some more testing I found that the DD-20's -20 dBu setting is slightly overloaded on transients when placed in the Eden's effects loop. Switching to +4 dBu cleans things up, with a slight increase in the noise floor (to access: hold down on/off pedal at power up).

    Another finding is that, when used in mono, the DD-20 sounds better using the "B" input and output. My suspicion is that the "A" input gets split and fed into the "B" input when used in mono, and that this reduces the input impedance by half, thus loading down the input and dampening the signal somewhat.

    For those who are curious, the A/D-D/A converter is an AK4552 (IIRC), which is an AKM 24-bit/96 kHz CODEC with decent, but not stellar, specifications. No idea of the sampling frequencies/bit depth used in this application. My suspicion is that most of the "sound" of this pedal comes from the analog circuitry, not the digital sections.

  • #2
    Hmmm... looks like this might be in the wrong section. Oops.... sorry!



    Perhaps it can be moved to the effects forum?

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    • #3
      Hello 12Bass,
      this is my first post here! :-) I hope my post is in the correct section of the forum..
      I've recently purchased an used Boss DD-20 Giga Delay, and I was wondering how I could make it more transparent in OFF state (my effect chain is true-bypass enterely).
      I read your post here, and I think mods you suggest were very good to apply to my DD-20.
      I've already located the OPA ics to be replaced, but I need to know the exact location of the coupling caps on the PCB (or maybe DD-20 schematics will work great too!).
      Will film capacitors with low tolerance fit correctly? Any particular brand suggested?

      Thanks for helping!

      Comment


      • #4
        Sorry I didn't reply sooner. Haven't been on much since the site was redesigned. I've sent you a reply over at TalkBass.

        After the op amp and bypass capacitor mods, I'd say that the DD-20 is somewhat more transparent sounding, both when on and in bypass. There's still a bit of residual hiss, though it is considerably less noticeable if used in an effects loop (line level) rather than at instrument level.

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        • #5
          Here's a picture of the DD-20's board which shows the op amps that were replaced:




          The three OPA1612s (originally M5218) have yellow ceramic capacitors across the power rails. The OPA2365 (was NJM2100) has a blue one, plus an electrolytic for good measure.

          Many of the electrolytics surrounding the op amps carry audio, as do some near the headphone output. Coupling electrolytics were bypassed with Panasonic polypropylenes which are on the bottom of the PCB (and thus not visible in the photo). I used a multimeter to find out which capacitors were in the audio path. None of the electrolytics were replaced. However, Panasonic FM series may be an improvement.

          From the look of it, there are a number of surface mount transistors near the input, so these may be FETs which are "bootstrapping" the input of the first op amp. In that case, if the circuit is already low impedance after the transistors, then using a FET input op amp for the first stage may not lower the residual noise. Because Boss used M5218s, I figured that bipolar devices would be appropriate.

          One point which I failed to mention is that the current consumption increased to above 220 mA after the modifications. However, a friend and I had a look for oscillations on his oscilloscope and didn't find anything out of the ordinary, so I'm not sure if there's anything to be concerned about.

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          • #6
            Thanks for the picture, 12bass. What about replacing enterely electrolytics caps with poly capacitors? (I mean, desolder electrolytics and place polys on the upper side of PCB) .. or maybe yours is better solution (the resulting coupling capacitance being PARALLEL of the two capacitors). I guess i will follow your next advice and choose bipolar devices. are little yellow ceramics over power pins just power supply filters? (I guess so)

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            • #7
              Originally posted by RedGuitar View Post
              Thanks for the picture, 12bass. What about replacing enterely electrolytics caps with poly capacitors? (I mean, desolder electrolytics and place polys on the upper side of PCB) .. or maybe yours is better solution (the resulting coupling capacitance being PARALLEL of the two capacitors). I guess i will follow your next advice and choose bipolar devices. are little yellow ceramics over power pins just power supply filters? (I guess so)
              Depends on the value. If possible, do it. Film capacitors of the appropriate size may be too large to fit, which is why sometimes it is better to run a small film in parallel. The small ceramics are there to help keep the op amps stable by canceling oscillation between the power rails. Not sure if they are necessary, but I generally use them as a preventative measure.

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              • #8
                Great, I'll look for film capacitors of appropriate capacitance, otherwise I will mount them parallel way like you did!
                I will let you know my impressions about the tone after making modifications on the PCB... but I'm sure they will be more than positive:-)
                You know... I got my only Boss pedal 'cause it has the longest and warmest digital delay.. but if there's good ways to improove the transparency, I'll do it :-D
                Cheers
                RedGuitar

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                • #9
                  Yeah.... was going to say that before digging in, it may be worth looking into alternative delays. Although the DD-20 has some unique features, there are a few others out there which are quieter and more open sounding. From the data sheet, it appears that the DD-20's AK4552 CODEC is not that great. A friend recently bought the Strymon Brigadier, and it sounds very nice. Others are the Hardwire DL-8, DigiTech TimeBender, TC Nova Delay, Eventide TimeFactor....

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                  • #10
                    Hi All!
                    I'm hoping to resurrect this thread, as I'm very interested in modding this delay, and new info is available. First off, schematic now available here

                    http://www.synfo.nl/servicemanuals/B...VICE_NOTES.pdf

                    Also, Film caps have gotten much smaller, so I may be able to substitute these for the electrolytics in the direct signal path. c58,c59,c13,c34,c118,c129,c4,c8,c12,c18,c28,c6,c20. Higher voltage rating, but think they would work. Could also work for c31,c35

                    MKS2B051001N00MSSD WIMA | Mouser

                    So, a few questions. What cap is being used across the op-amp chips? Also, there are other caps that have one side touching the direct signal chain, or are going across signal chain devices. Could those be replaced (would there be a benefit)?c2,c16
                    c3,c17
                    c115,c116
                    c15,c1,c10,c30
                    c21,c22,c119,c131
                    c11,c32

                    I know it will probably be hard to get 12Bass back onto this thread, but could really use some input. Thanks!!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Quick update:

                      Some time ago I was able to get a copy of the Boss service manual. This makes it much easier to make useful modifications.

                      As for the decoupling capacitors, generally I use 0.1µF ceramics across the IC power rails.

                      The initial change to OPA1612s raised the quiescent current draw of the DD-20 to over 200ma which was a slight cause for concern; although I tried to track down possible oscillation I was unable to find anything with an oscilloscope. However, after switching to OPA1642s the current draw is now closer to 180ma, with perhaps slightly less background hiss.

                      Sometime soon I'm planning on revisiting the high-cut capacitors in the delay path because I'm getting a little aliasing distortion when used with my homemade A/DA flanger. I don't mind to lose a little bit of treble on the delayed signal. My biggest reason for making modifications was to open up the frequency response in the dry/bypassed path. Without modification, the DD-20 is a bit of a "tone sucker" IMO.

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