MIDI control setup for a beginner

[sibo]

Hi,
recently I decided to change my approach of playing. From being a analog purist to joining up the 21st century's digital world of modeling amps, MIDI and what not.

So far I figured I will be getting me one of those Eleven Racks as it sounds pretty realistic and I'm not really after tons of effects as I already got my analog pedalboard that will be used through FX loop.

Now what I want is a way to easily manage my pedals but of course I wouldn't wanna build a system with 30 meters of cable that completely kills sweet tone. Seems I'm left with one solution that scares the hell outta me - MIDI!

The way I understand it I should be able to rack mount my 11R, all of my pedals using one of those slick pedal bays on wheels and then install some kind of switcher (please give me ideas on make/models that won't break my bank), wire that through MIDI cables to a MIDI floorboard that can control the entire rig.

It's important to me that I can control all devices. For floorboard button 1 should give me 11Racks JCM 800 tone with analog pedal X and Y active plus my TC Flashback X4 with one delay setting. Button two would then change to let's say a Fender tone on the 11R and disable pedal X but add pedal Z and change my delay.

Now - is that possible or am I dreaming? If it is, what is required other than a rack, tons of patch cables, MIDI floorboard, MIDI cable and my pedals? The bit of the puzzle I'm missing is some kind of switch with MIDI interface, right?

[Chuck H]

Excluding interpretation of any possible system implied above...

MIDI should control things discretely. None of the MIDI control cables need to be in the signal chain. But if you really want to keep things simple, do what I did...

Before MIDI was the complex subject it is now with eminently more gadgets and resources available I used a simple "advance" momentary switch. Now, I only had "advance" no reverse, previous, last, etc. So there was no room for missteps or timing errors. I used an ADA MP1 preamp (midi programmable) and an Alesis Quadraverb (also midi programmable) I simply patched them together via the provided jacks so they would advance simultaneously. One cable to the advance switch and one cable back to the units. If a song requires, say, an intro tone with certain effects, then a rhythm tone with different effects, then a lead tone, back to a rhythm tone you would use four patches for that song and simply step on the "advance" switch for each change. With so many MIDI presets available now, forward AND backward options and the ability to choose preset patch groupings I would think that it's possible to use no more than two forward/backward pedals and midi programmable preamp and effects processor to do almost anything. Why complicate the matter with interfacing pedals when there are many good programmable units that will handle it for you once you dial in a tone you want to save?

[sibo]

Excluding interpretation of any possible system implied above...

MIDI should control things discretely. None of the MIDI control cables need to be in the signal chain. But if you really want to keep things simple, do what I did...

Before MIDI was the complex subject it is now with eminently more gadgets and resources available I used a simple "advance" momentary switch. Now, I only had "advance" no reverse, previous, last, etc. So there was no room for missteps or timing errors. I used an ADA MP1 preamp (midi programmable) and an Alesis Quadraverb (also midi programmable) I simply patched them together via the provided jacks so they would advance simultaneously. One cable to the advance switch and one cable back to the units. If a song requires, say, an intro tone with certain effects, then a rhythm tone with different effects, then a lead tone, back to a rhythm tone you would use four patches for that song and simply step on the "advance" switch for each change. With so many MIDI presets available now, forward AND backward options and the ability to choose preset patch groupings I would think that it's possible to use no more than two forward/backward pedals and midi programmable preamp and effects processor to do almost anything. Why complicate the matter with interfacing pedals when there are many good programmable units that will handle it for you once you dial in a tone you want to save?

Interesting thoughts! Ty but what I'm after is some kind of switch with memory that can be controlled via MIDI.
And that last question - I built a lot of riffs and parts for my bands songs based on specific pedals that I simply dont wanna leave out of my rig.

[Chuck H]

Well it seems to me that it's easier to just step on the pedal than it is to interface it via additional cables and a MIDI controller and then step on two pedals (one step to select the pedal and another to engage it). Unless you want the switched off pedals out of the chain when not in use. You could still use a simple MIDI switching system for the broad strokes and basic tones and keep the pedal board in the input chain. IIRC I did some of that too. When I wanted to engage a Wha pedal I didn't do it via the midi functions. It was plugged into the amps input and I just stepped on it.

[sibo]

Yeah I got it, I might end up using that solution but having a lot of pedals kills precious tone.
To clearify what I meant earlier I wanted all analog pedals engaged and out of the loop, connected to some kind of rack mountable MIDI switcher so that signal is led past them when they're not in use. Of course Id want a programmable MIDI FLOOR control so I wouldnt have to dance around on the buttons to engage/disengage IO of the switcher.

So,
a button on floorboard should change settings on my 11R, disable thee pedals and enable one pedal for example (via the switching unit).

Is that doable? if so, will it ruin me?

[Brad1]

Might look at some Voodoo Labs stuff...if not even to actually buy...but to get ideas. They actually have a couple of things that would connect to do all that.

Voodoo Lab - Ground Control Pro - Midi Foot Controller

Sweetwater even has a package with an Eleven unit and a Ground Control already preprogrammed for it. You'd have to also add a rack-mount MIDI-controllable stompbox switcher.

Avid Eleven Rack with Ground Control Pro Bundle | Sweetwater.com

Brad1

[tedmich]

good luck joining the slow moving synth revolution!

on a semi related note, there is entirely midi music from the early days of computers/intewebs! check this!
http://w3.uwyo.edu/~dwwilson/inagodda.mid
they don't do polyphonics well...
from Midi Music Files

(VLC will play these)

[Brad1]

good luck joining the slow moving synth revolution!

on a semi related note, there is entirely midi music from the early days of computers/intewebs! check this!
http://w3.uwyo.edu/~dwwilson/inagodda.mid
they don't do polyphonics well...
from Midi Music Files

(VLC will play these)

Well, Ted...this is actually not about synths and MIDI music...but MIDI control of patch changes and effects box routing

Having a simple advance/back two-button one would work to advance and go back one patch...but what if you are playing and decide to play a song 14 songs into your set list, and you are only on the third song at the time? What if those 11 songs have several patches each...say even 2? You would have to stand there and kick that "advance" button 22 times to get to the patch you want....and HOPE you counted right...or you may start playing a high-gain song with an acoustic patch...OOOOPS!

Much more elegant and easy is a controlelr that will let you tap a few buttons for direct access patch changes. Say you want to go to that 14th song opening patch...and it's patch number....28? Simply hit a patch change button, 2 and 8 and "Save" (or whatever...may not even need to do that...depends on the MIDI controller). Also a MUST is at least a display that shows the patch number "28"...if not and/or the patch name...as in "Kashmir 1". Send the change, it changes the patch on the Eleven rack unit to its programmed patch, and reroutes your stomp boxes with the effects routing unit...all from just tapping in "Patch Change">"2">"8">(and maybe "Save, etc.).

It's possible some of those units may even do channel switching on your amp, if so equipped (on the amp and the routing/controller unit).

Just some thoughts,

Brad1

What he wants can be done. It probably can't be done REALLY well, cheaply, though.

[MandyWeidemann]

althought i don't have this kind of problem, but this thread is really inspired me...thank you...it's useful!

[sibo]

good luck joining the slow moving synth revolution!

on a semi related note, there is entirely midi music from the early days of computers/intewebs! check this!
http://w3.uwyo.edu/~dwwilson/inagodda.mid
they don't do polyphonics well...
from Midi Music Files

(VLC will play these)

Err what? Don't think we're on the same page here..

Well, Ted...this is actually not about synths and MIDI music...but MIDI control of patch changes and effects box routing

Having a simple advance/back two-button one would work to advance and go back one patch...but what if you are playing and decide to play a song 14 songs into your set list, and you are only on the third song at the time? What if those 11 songs have several patches each...say even 2? You would have to stand there and kick that "advance" button 22 times to get to the patch you want....and HOPE you counted right...or you may start playing a high-gain song with an acoustic patch...OOOOPS!

Much more elegant and easy is a controlelr that will let you tap a few buttons for direct access patch changes. Say you want to go to that 14th song opening patch...and it's patch number....28? Simply hit a patch change button, 2 and 8 and "Save" (or whatever...may not even need to do that...depends on the MIDI controller). Also a MUST is at least a display that shows the patch number "28"...if not and/or the patch name...as in "Kashmir 1". Send the change, it changes the patch on the Eleven rack unit to its programmed patch, and reroutes your stomp boxes with the effects routing unit...all from just tapping in "Patch Change">"2">"8">(and maybe "Save, etc.).

It's possible some of those units may even do channel switching on your amp, if so equipped (on the amp and the routing/controller unit).

Just some thoughts,

Brad1

What he wants can be done. It probably can't be done REALLY well, cheaply, though.

Exactly and I did get my precious 11R, wired it to a active monitor for rehearsals and it sounds brilliant. It almost feels a little too realistic. For those with 11R I would very much like to promote the "Singtall eleven rack super pack" for a great platform to start out with - building your own tones. Google it if you're interested.

When it comes to controlling it all there seems to be two paths that are of interest to me - the obvious Voodo Labs GCP as posted above AND the Behringer FCB1010 which is a lot cheaper. The thing about the latter is you can have the chip in it replaced at eurekasound.com (or reprogram it yourself for free) to make an excellent fit for the eleven rack.

Right now I'm still standing in front of the 11R, tinkering at rehearsals/studio so I feel there's no rush in getting that floorboard but when I do I'll let you know more. Also, please let alternative solutions floating around this thread!

[J M Fahey]

althought i don't have this kind of problem, but this thread is really inspired me...thank you...it's useful!

Well said.

I agree.

This Forum rocks.

Glad I joined .

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etc. etc. etc.

[tedmich]

JM are you declaring a loser in an online Turing Test?