Any recommendations for laminator for PCB fab?

[Shea]

I can't ever get complete toner transfer using an iron.

What is a good laminating machine to use?

Shea

[Sock Puppet]

Have you tried different paper types with your laser printer?

Some get good results with Epson photo glossy (I've tried this with no problems) others like a semi gloss type:

http://max8888.orcon.net.nz/pcbs.htm

I've never tried a laminator as an iron works fine for me.

HTH,

S.

[Shea]

Have you tried different paper types with your laser printer?

Some get good results with Epson photo glossy (I've tried this with no problems) others like a semi gloss type:

http://max8888.orcon.net.nz/pcbs.htm

I've never tried a laminator as an iron works fine for me.

HTH,

S.

SP, I can't even get perfect results using Press N Peel Blue and an iron. Seeing as PNP Blue was designed for that specific purpose, I'm assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that it's as good a medium as it gets.

I realize some people do fine with an iron, but I think either I have the wrong iron or I just don't have the right touch. I don't make PCBs very often, so it might be lack of practice.

Shea

[JJGross]

Some more obvious (or not) hints I've found to get good results:
* 1. Make sure your enclosure isn't shiny smooth. I get great results using old band flyers (glossy thin paper) with an old HP LaserJet 4MP and sanding my boxes with 150 grit sandpaper to give some 'tooth' for the toner to hold onto. If you want a chrome-aluminum look, maybe acid etching or water-slide decals are better options for your graphics than toner transfer. Keep in mind that if you're polishing aluminum with a buffing wheel, the material on the wheel that makes it shiny is suspended in wax, and toner doesn't like to stick to a layer of wax any more than it does to a mirror-smooth metal surface.
* 2. Once you have a semi-rough surface to iron onto, make sure it's laboratory clean by wiping it liberally with at least 70% isopropal alcohol or naptha (lighter fluid). Even a little finger oil can ruin a transfer so make sure it's squeaky clean.
* 3. Make sure your iron is as hot as it will go and let it really warm up good before you start. It should actually be hot enough that if you sprinkle a drop of water on it, it should 'fry' a little and disappear quickly.
* 4. Heat up your enclosure before you put the toner to it. I combine these last two steps by putting the iron on high and placing it right on top of the enclosure for at least 5 minutes or more. By the time the iron is really hot, so is the box.
* 5. Rub with a little pressure until you can see the pattern right through the paper. This is probably the best way to know you've melted the toner completely. Any parts that aren't showing up need more attention until they do.
* 6. Punching little pinholes in toner free areas on your transfer can help let air out of open spaces instead of letting that air get trapped under the paper. If you have air under the paper when you get things hot, that air will expand and can lift up nearby edges before the toner around them melts completely.
* 7. Once you think your transfer is complete and you're ready to dunk it in water, drop it in boiling water. I've tried cold water to shock it, room temperature to see if it even made a difference and everything from kind of hot to scalding hot. The hotter the better from what I've seen, like 'tea kettle screaming' hot.

Hope these ideas help. I've done a ton of toner transfers using the cheapest material available to me and always got good results with all my designs including those with shading in the graphics.

note :: I've just re-read your post and realized you're doing PCB, not enclosures. Same techniques apply though.

Cheers,
- JJ

[Shea]

Follow up

I tried the iron and PNP Blue again last night, and that time I got it right. I set the iron to a hotter setting than I did before, and ironed longer too.

So, a hotter iron and more patience did the trick.

This is just a camera phone pic - the edges are not as fuzzy as they look here. They're nice & crisp.

Shea

[Mark Hammer]

I find the hardest part for some people is knowing when they have ironed "enough". Here is the principle that I employ:

1) With PnP, the toner layer is this enough that when the acetate backing starts to soften a bit with heat and sags. Happily, the thinness of the acetate and thickness of the toner make that sag visible, such that you see the entire PCB patterns in relief. When you can see the entire pattern in relief, you're done.

2) With photo paper, the paper itself is far to thick and rigid for the sag to be visible. Besides, while the shinyness of the acetate sheet can make even a tiny bit of sag visible with PnP, the photo paper will be dull dull dull on the back so you have no opportunity to see whatever sag there might be. What I find is that the paper backing, plus heat, tends to produce a sort of "rubbing" image, not unlike what people do with a bit of charcoal, sheet of stiff paper and a tombstone. Once you can see the entire pattern in your "rubbing", you're done. Now it may be that the visibility of the rubbing is a function of the material your clothes iron is made from, but my sense is that virtually any cheap iron will be made of the same stuff.

3) In neither case are you "done" until the board is properly cooled off. You have to think of the toner as being in a custody battle and focred to decide whether to go with "mommy" (the backing sheet the emulsion came on) or "daddy" (the copper board the toner is ironed to). If the board and sheet are still warm, then it will not go with daddy quite so easily. Cool it off and the emulsion layer that the toner is fused with will easily separate from the paper or acetate backing.