Klemt Echolette S...(cont.)

[Mecaso]

Hello

Thanks...but, for record heads, in the direction of tape travel, after the erase

head, the first head is the n°3.

It is it which gives the longest echo.

So, the normal order after erase head would be 3, 2, 1, 4, 5.


Regards....

[Mickey]

Hello

I own an Echolette NG-51 S, but i am not sure of the tape heads location.

For record heads, i think , when going from right to left, we have 3,2,1 heads.

But, my doubt is for playback heads!

After record head n°1, (always from right to left) is it head n°4 or n°5? Please?

My Echolette was modified by the previous owner, & i am

not sure that heads 4 & 5 are in the good order...

If any one could inform me, thanks to him!

Best greetings from France.

Hi, both record and playback heads should measure approximately 1K ohms. Old NG51 Echolettes suffered from head problems mainly the record heads (from my experience) and I believe this may have been partially caused by the "high" bias oscillator voltage assisting the wire corrosion problem that besets these heads.
Could you provide details of the issues you are experiencing or what you are trying to improve.
Regards, Mickey

[oc disorder]

Mecaso

I guess its "the playback head near the record head n°1 which works" as that head as it is so close it would be a very short echo more like reverberation etc .. the one here had heads replaced so the wires could have been swapped.
When I look at the picture , heads 4 - 1 - 2 - 3 are evenly spaced apart.
5 is the extra.

[Mecaso]

Mickey said:

Could you provide details of the issues you are experiencing or what you are trying to improve.


Hello

Sorry, Mickey, i don't try anything, but i only search the order of tape

heads from right to left of the NG-51 S.

All my heads are in good shape. I have bought my Echolette in ......1967.

It was second hand, and i used it in my orchestra from 1967 to 1973.

But i have keep it at home.

I have others tape echoes:

- 1 Dynacord Echocord S-62 a

- 1 Dynacord Echocord 100

- 1 Echolette Echo 400

And it is when looking at Echocord S-62A diagram that i had a doubt

with location of Playback heads on my echolette NG 51 S.

On S-62 A, the tape heads are in this order:

3, 2, 1, 5, 4.

On my NG-51 S , this order is 3, 2, 1, 4, 5.

So, i think that tape heads 4 & 5 are in disorder on my NG-51 S.

[Mecaso]

Mecaso

I guess its "the playback head near the record head n°1 which works" as that head as it is so close it would be a very short echo more like reverberation etc .. the one here had heads replaced so the wires could have been swapped.
When I look at the picture , heads 4 - 1 - 2 - 3 are evenly spaced apart.
5 is the extra.

OK Now, i am in accord with you.

I think it is the good order.

On my NG-51 S , heads 4 & 5 are permuted, and i don't know the reason why.

So, i'll permute this heads to put them in the good order.

Thanks again & regards....

[notea]

Hi Oc,

thanks a lot for your usefull schematics and pics!, i will study this carefully those days,but i'm away from the unit this week.
i think i've got this type of schem cause my rectifier is labeled "B300 C70":
http://personal.inet.fi/musiikki/ind...tte%20NG51.JPG

See ya Nick

[Mickey]

Hi, playback heads 4 & 5 were from my perception meant to double the number of echos when both were switched on. It's easy to ascertain which head is being switched by connecting the tape as usual, then removing the tape and then slightly and very carefully just touching the head gap with a flat screwdriver. First with push-pull switch in and then pull it out. You will then know for sure which head is being switched out.
Actually an interesting modification would be to add a switch to the other head so that either playback head could be switched on or off. This would require a bit of circuitry alteration to keep levels consistent, but would never the less add another dimension.
Cheers, Mike

[Mecaso]

The problem was not to determine which head was in service.

As you indicate it, with a screwdriver, it is very easy.

But I wanted just to know the theoretical order of heads on the origin assembly

of the NG-51-S, mine having been "a few" tinkered by his previous owner.

[oc disorder]

OK Now, i am in accord with you.

I think it is the good order.

On my NG-51 S , heads 4 & 5 are permuted, and i don't know the reason why.

So, i'll permute this heads to put them in the good order.

Thanks again & regards....

Yes .. I thought about it a bit more
Rec. Head 1 makes the 1st (first) sound received by the playback heads.
Rec. Head 2 " 2nd (second) "
Rec. Head 3 third sound.

That is why the "Germans" labeled the rec heads from the order of sound ..not the physical position on the top of the echo machine.
It is unusual but clever to me , to have 3 record heads and 2 play heads instead of 1 record head and 4 play heads.

I learn something new every day. Thanks,

[notea]

Hello, it's Nick again back from my rest week,

I was happy to find in my mail box yesterday the parts, brand new tapes and a ECC82.
I putted the tape and the tube on but nothing happened, still no echo sound..
With the Nachhall reverb switched on, i tried to trace back the signal and i came with no buzz on the output Din pin socket 3,
i moved on to Valve 4, nothing on pin 2&7, then to valve 3 and still nothing on pin 2&7..
the buzz is on the output din socket pins 4&5, but it's the dry signal according to Oc's pics.
Excuse me for this secondary silly question, but i still wonder why i can hear the buzz on pin 4&5 as i soldered pin 3&2 of my output jack plug..
are pins 3 and 5 joined together in the din plug? I missed something here..
Cheers Nick

[oc disorder]

Hi Nick . Please find Output wiring attached. No they shouldn't be joined.
Can you get your meter probes to measure the playback heads resistance as per my previous diagram?
and can you check if the layout of components at Tube 4 is the same as the one I posted.
The two sections in a 12whatever7 tube are identical so physically it was easy for this unit
to have the pins not the same as the diagrams. In one of the diagrams I lightly
labeled the pins in a gold colour.

[Mecaso]

Hello

My question will probably seem silly , but I guess

Nick has installed a magnetic tape on its tape echo

and it is well facing , ie with the surface covered

with iron oxide ( Fe2O3) oriented to be in direct

contact with the magnetic heads.

Sorry for asking this question...

[Mickey]

Nick, before you do anything, correct the issue with the signal output from the din plug. Why have you soldered pins 3 & 2 together, if you look at the schematic you'll see that pin 2 is ground and pin 3 is the combined dry & echo signal output. You have grounded the output! Do you understand the numbering on the pins as sometimes this is a bit confusing for non technical people. Cheers, Mike

[oc disorder]

Hi Mecaso , not a silly question but we are not fitting a tape loop just yet.
Nick said he has bought some tape loops ready made so when the time comes to put a tape loop on the machine as you suggest ,
he must make sure the correct side of the tape faces the tape heads.
For Nick it should be easy as the splice or join will be on the outside.
In the old days the shiny side faced out and the dull side as you say with the Fe203 faced in.
Some tape (Ampex?) has the oxide on the shiny side? !!!.
A good point you brought to our attention !

[Mickey]

Just like to say that being involved with the discussion on Klemt Echolette Tape Echos I have come to understand more about the intricacies of these great machines. Often when I repaired/serviced one of these items I would just measure voltages, check capacitors and resistors and generally apply my electronic knowledge to eventuate a repair. The adjustment of the bias voltage to each recording head was never of great significance as the units usually responded well to basic repairs and customers were delighted to have their Echolettes back in working condition albeit not at optimum performance. Maybe the bias voltages were in tolerance but when I did begin to make this adjustment as a standard repair/service procedure I felt that the performance had been enhanced.
I guess the limited number of these machines coming in for repairs and the very limited service information available was a factor in the degree of competency when repairs were performed by me. Thankfully Bobby Staedel from Germany provided invaluable assistance when I approached him for same many years ago.
Having repaired numerous Watkins Copicats which are very basic in design I guess the finer points of the Klemt Echolettes alluded me.