Delay function

[J M Fahey]

Dear spareribs, glad you came back , we were talking among ourselves without your input.

Agree on what you hear, SS distortion as found on most guitar amps is usually harsh/brittle compared to Tube distortion as found on most guitar amps.

They simply clip different, for various reasons, and SS is flat EQ after the distortion , which is unflattering, while Tube is not, and in general that is considered "warming".

The good news is that you can somewht copy/imitate that and get smoother sound.

Google the Marshall Bluesbreaker pedal schematic and post it here, it applies some tricks for a smooth warm "tubey" overdrive which is quite acceptable, maybe you can apply some of that to your own amps.

[Steve A.]

I would look into rewiring the first gain stage along the lines of a Timmy or Barber Silver LTD





I'm not sure how the IC in your Squire compares to the ones in these pedals but they may give you some ideas.

I have quite a few Fender SS amps from the 90's for mad professor experiments and I'm going to try rewiring the first IC stage as one of these (they both have a really nice clean sound and get a nice gritty sound when the gain is boosted.)

Steve A.

[Steve A.]

Google the Marshall Bluesbreaker pedal schematic and post it here, it applies some tricks for a smooth warm "tubey" overdrive which is quite acceptable, maybe you can apply some of that to your own amps.

Funny that you mention the Bluesbreaker because I just got turned on to the Analogman Prince of Tone pedal loosely based on an anonymously-modded Bluesbreaker that Jim Weider bought used in the early 90's. He was raving about it to Analog Mike who bought a stock pedal but was underwhelmed. So he reverse-engineered Jim's pedal, fine-tuning the mods and adding several mode switches to make it more versatile.





I read that original Bluesbreaker pedal was better than the later versions that came out in the 90s. I wonder if this is it...



Steve A.

[SpareRibs]

Hello,
OK guys, I know I am a PITA. I have a possible solution to softening the brittleness in my amp. I have a Radio Shack Karaoke Echo Microphone #33-3006. I have searched the web for quite some time today for a schematic, to no avail.
It has ON/OFF Switch - Echo level slide adjustment.
If I were to remove the actual microphone from the housing, replacing it with the amplifier input jack, and then wire the input jack of the microphone directly in line to the amplifier, would that perhaps give me the desired results. In addition to being incorporated directly into the amp, there would be no need for 9 volt batteries, and other problems associated with pedals

[J M Fahey]

That *might* give you a little cheesy Delay ... if planets align and levels match which I very much doubt.

In fact only almost guaranteed result is ugly distortion and lots of hiss ... any influence on amp smoothness a completely random result, if any at all.

The schematics shown above (thanks Steve )point at commercial succesful distortion circuits which start with SS distortion (i.e. "buzzy/harsh") and tame it one way or another.

Not familiar with the Barber units, but Bluesbreaker was greeted in its time because of providing smooth light crunch, and most important , "a passable imitation of the reviewer's own Bluesbreaker" which is a high praise indeed.

Notice that both have:

1) low gain (for a distortion pedal that is)

2) treble/presence boost at the input, *before* clipping, so later you can:

3) stronger than normal treble cut (12dB/oct instead of the usual 6dB/oct found in most others in the BB or cascaded mid/high cut in the Barber, labelled as "Bass/Mid")

4) at least in the BB, diode clipping action is limited by a series resistor so clipped squarewave edges are rounded instead of sharply limited.

You may apply these tricks to your own amp and have smoother clipping.

One great step you already took, is going from a small light 8" speaker, which by definition is spikey buzzy and has no low end to speak of , to a 12" speaker which is superior to the other one on all counts.

FWIW at this very moment I am working on a friend's Son very buzzy Marshall/Valvestate 10W , doubly buzzy because he uses it at very low volume in a Student's Residence (he's studying something in Buenos Aires) where suppossedly everybody is hard at work studying difficult stuff and can't be annoyed, so I straight pulled his OEM oriental no name light 8" speaker , 63 mm magnet, 19mm voice coil, a real tabletop radio speaker with enough highs to hear cymbal crashes and such (I already tested that) and replaced it with one of my own 8" (no space for anything larger) , 86mm magnet, much heavier 25 mm voice coil, thicker cone, for a completely different sound.

Mind you, it lost its earlier sparkle, (clean sound was killer with a Tele) , but what kid buys a **Marshall** to chickenpick?

Now his Metallica or Korn chops sound much better.

By the way, he was impressed: "hey Juan, you speaker sounds way better than a Celestion !!!!!!! "
Well, flattering but not so, the original was the cheapest cheesy special-discount-today-only Marshall could find at that moment.
He was crushed, he thought it was a Celestion because that particular Valvestate (inherited from his Father who bought in the early 90's ... before he was born) was proudly "Made in England" .

[SpareRibs]

Hello,
Being that the microphone is so small in comparison to the amplifier, would it be possible to wire in a circuit to create an echo effect in the existing amplifier ?
It would seem it uses very few parts to create the effect.

[J M Fahey]

If you want to build and add a delay to your amp, and can spend $29.99 , this is all you need:
2399 LoFi Delay | GetLoFi ? Circuit Bending Synth DIY



or:
Long Delay Echo / Reverberation

MOST demos are by synth guys and VERY cheesy, but here's one by a guitar player.

I bought a stick of PT2399 chips at about $8 each but being very lazy didn't design a PCB to integrate them into my amps, but ... stay tuned ... might soon because it's easier than adding a spring reverb, cheaper , and has a wow!! factor as seen by customers.

Note: can also be built on Veroboard:
Guitar FX Layouts: Madbean Cave Dweller

[Leo_Gnardo]

If you want to build and add a delay to your amp, and can spend $29.99 , this is all you need:
2399 LoFi Delay | GetLoFi ? Circuit Bending Synth DIY
- - - - - -
Note: can also be built on Veroboard:
Guitar FX Layouts: Madbean Cave Dweller

It will have to be the Madbean veroboard version, as GetLoFi is now showing a "sold out" sign. Looks like a poor man's cheap Echoplex substitute - koooool! & thanx for the links Juan ! !

[Steve A.]

It might be easier to add an FX loop to your amp so that you could add your choice of effects right before the power amp section.

As for modifying the preamp of your amp one drawback to the Bluesbreaker/King of Tone design is that the first two opamp stages are tightly integrated so you'd want to rewire both stages. With the Timmy or the Barber you could try incorporating their tricks on just the first opamp stage.

Steve Ahola

[Steve A.]

FWIW at this very moment I am working on a friend's Son very buzzy Marshall/Valvestate 10W , doubly buzzy because he uses it at very low volume in a Student's Residence...

Juan: Thanks for your suggestions on modding my 10 watt Orange Crush amp with reverb! I just wanted to say that the latest generation Orange Crush ss amps are amazing- both channels are voiced well with the 35 watt model arguably outperforming all amps at its price point ($259). Except for the digital reverb it is 100% analog.
Orange was founded in 1968 and its good to see a company dedicated to great sounds for musicians... [End of ad]

Steve A.

[Enzo]

Juan's kit looks nice enough at $30, and if you don't feel like building, the same amount of money buys a ready made new delay pedal fro, DanElectro or others.

[rjb]

I bought a stick of PT2399 chips at about $8 each

If this is legit, 10 for $5.50 (55 cents apiece!) thru Newegg:
10 pcs PT2399 IC DIP Echo Delay PTC Audio Processor Guitar Stompbox DIY IC DIP-16pin - Newegg.com

[Mick Bailey]

Beware of substandard PT2399 chips - I've had quite a few. I posted my findings over at Stompbox Forum a few years back, but I've since had bad batches that are junk.

PT2399 motorboating problem with new ICs

[SpareRibs]

I would look into rewiring the first gain stage along the lines of a Timmy or Barber Silver LT
I'm not sure how the IC in your Squire compares to the ones in these pedals but they may give you some ideas.
I have quite a few Fender SS amps from the 90's for mad professor experiments and I'm going to try rewiring the first IC stage as one of these (they both have a really nice clean sound and get a nice gritty sound when the gain is boosted.)
Steve A.

Hello,
I would have no idea where to place that in the fender circuit. I am looking at both diagrams but I cannot understand where to splice them

[Steve A.]

Hello,
I would have no idea where to place that in the fender circuit. I am looking at both diagrams but I cannot understand where to splice them

For starters I would try rewiring the negative feedback loop* of the first opamp stage, along with the circuit to ground from the - and + inputs.

* This is the circuitry between the output and the - input. It shapes the gain and response of the stage. A jumper will give you unity gain, a 10k resistor will give you a whole shitload. A capacitor will cut highs. Clipping diodes will give you distortion. Quite often there will be a pot or variable resistor as a gain control.

Juan pointed out that a cap and resistor from the - terminal to ground will act as a bright cap which was a big help in revoicing my 90's Fender amps.

HTH

Steve Ahola